The Mick & Pat Show - True Crime and Treasure Hunts

0:19 Preface storms by the relentless sun. The wind howled across the dunes, carrying with it the stinging bite of sand that scraped skin raw and blinded those foolish enough to venture into its heart. Borovik, magnus and Jemethi were such fools, though not by accident but by choice. With faces shrouded in scarves and eyes narrowed against the onslaught, the three treasure hunters trudged through the storm each step, sinking deep into the shifting sands. The world around them was a blur, a maelstrom of sand and dust that obscured all but the vaguest shapes in the distance. Yet they pressed on, driven by the lure of ancient riches and the promise of glory.

1:00 Borovik led the way, his former shadowy figure. In the storm, the human arcane archer, moved with a confidence that bordered on recklessness, his bow strapped securely across his back, its arcane runes faintly glowing, even in the midst of the sandstorm. His face was set in a grim line, his eyes narrowed against the stinging sands. There was a fire in Borevik, a burning ambition that had driven him from the merchant halls to the deadly desert sands. There was a fire in Borovik, a burning ambition that had driven him from the merchant halls to the deadly desert sands. But his brash nature, while a boon in battle, was a liability in leadership. He was a man who craved victory at any cost, even if it meant sacrificing those who followed him Behind him.

1:43 Magnus fought to keep pace, his steps more cautious, his eyes flickering with unease. The human warlock clutched his cloak tightly around him, the fabric doing little to ward off the storm's fury. His thoughts were not on the treasures that lay ahead, but on the unseen debts that plagued his mind. Magnus's bond with his Ifriti patron had granted him powers beyond mortal ken. Yet those powers came with a price, one that gnawed at him with every passing day. His gaze often drifted to the shifting sands beneath his feet, as if expecting the desert itself to rise up and demand payment for the power he wielded.

2:23 The last of the trio was Jimothy, a gnome artificer whose small stature was no match for the relentless storm. But what he lacked in size, he made up for with ingenuity. Encased in a suit of armor of his own design, the gnome moved like a walking fortress, each step accompanied by the whirring of gears and the hum of arcane energy. Accompanied by the whirring of gears and the hum of arcane energy. Jamethi's eyes, sharp and unforgiving, scanned the horizon from beneath his helmet, ever alert for danger. His armor, a masterpiece of artifice, was both his protection and his prison, a testament to his skill but also to the grudges he held. His heart was as fortified as his armor, closed off from those who had wronged him and wary of those who sought his aid, blasted desert Jaimithy spat his voice, barely audible over the wind.

3:13 We should have stayed at the halfway inn. That way I'd only be lost in the bosom of a whore and a goblet of questria. Quit your whining. Jaimithy Borovik barked back his voice, cutting through the roar of the storm. There's treasure to be found, and it won't be ours if we're whoring and drunk in a tavern. The sandstorm, as if in response, seemed to intensify the wind shrieking with a feral fury. But then, as suddenly as it had begun, the storm broke. The wind died down to a mere whisper and the sands settled. The three adventurers found themselves at the mouth of a vast valley.

3:53 The towering red mountains of Orofin loomed on either side, their sheer faces rising like the walls of a forgotten fortress. The valley, between the mountain faces, stretched a mile wide and five miles long its floor a chaotic maze of jagged rock spires and ancient sand dunes. Centuries ago, before the spell plague and the fall of the floating cities of Netheril, the land here had been different. Aureline, the city of magicians, had soared high above, a testament to the might and hubris of the Netherese. But when the magic that held these cities aloft faltered, aurelin plummeted from the heavens, crashing into the earth with a cataclysmic force that sundered it in two.

4:38 What remained were the mountains of Orophin, their flat faces, a constant reminder of the city's fall. Over the centuries, the valley between these mountains had eroded and expanded, becoming a mile-wide chasm filled with red rock spires, mesas and sand, an oasis of sorts in the otherwise barren desert, a refuge for creatures and travellers alike. The valley was eerily silent, the air heavy with the weight of history and death. Scattered across the valley floor were the skeletal remains of Cormyrion spelljammers, their once mighty hulls now broken and bleached by the relentless sun.

5:19 These flying ships, vessels of war that had carried thousands into battle, now served as little more than tombs for their crews. The debris of sundered armies littered the ground, a graveyard of ships and soldiers alike. Magnus shuddered as he stepped into the valley, the oppressive silence wrapping around him like a shroud. There was something unnatural about this place, something that set his teeth on edge. He tightened his grip on his staff, feeling the comforting pulse of magic within it, a reminder of the power he could call upon if needed. Jamethi was the last to enter his armoured feet crunching over the rocky ground.

6:02 His eyes darted around, taking in the twisted remains of what must have once been a Cormyrion sloop, its skeletal hull, half buried in the sand. The ship was a grim reminder of the battle that had raged here decades ago. The final stand of the Bannerless Blades, hey Ken. This is Mick here is Mick here and, uh, you know we'll see what happens in post, but you might have just listened to the first I don't know five to twenty minutes of the little pet project that Pat and I have going on here. And you know we've talked a lot about AI. I've talked about how you know, my job is working with a lot of machine learning models and working on AI, but I also do it a lot as a side hobby and I just sent Pat this recording that I made and in under a day I had taken the notes from a Dungeons and Dragons single evening adventure with friends evening adventure with friends and I had fleshed it out, used some ai to help uh review some writing and help, uh come up with some writer's block stuff, and I wrote out, uh, eight pages of this story essentially, uh, what would you say, the novelization I guess you know, or?

7:22 or there's not really a word for storification Storified, storifying Because it's not really a novel either, right? You know, but yeah, for sure. But anyways, with the power of AI, I quickly cranked out something that I thought was an enjoyable reading experience. I thought it was exciting and captured the essence of the adventure and the feeling of being around the table. And captured the essence of the adventure and the feeling of being around the table. And then I started using some text-to-speech models and I found out we could. You know, technology has come far enough now that I could use multiple actors. And playing around with the different voices available, ones I had created, ones that others had created and recorded, I decided to say, hey, you know, let's just see, let's start playing around and see where this technology can really go and how well it sounds, how decent it is, and I was absolutely shocked, especially with the narrator voice and how clear and clean and, um, you know, performative the narration was from the AI, because nothing you heard just now was an actual person reading off the story I wrote.

8:32 It was all, of course, text-to-speech, via machine learning models and, of course, some of it's more obvious right, like Borovik and Magnus' voice actors are a little wooden a little dry um and that's. That's because those models especially if you listen to the sound quality, those models just don't, I think, have as much training data data behind them, so they can't personify as much and perform uh theatrically, whereas the narrator's voice I specifically chose because it had so much model uh information behind it for to train off of and I could really tell it it was designed to be performative in a narrator.

9:14 Um, I thought uh, jimothy. I thought jimothy had a great old curmudgeon, gnomish guy voice, yep. I thought uh, david had a good snobby half-elf voice, uh, and of course, pat. Then, you know, after I sent it to him I said, hey, dude, here's this also all the music you just heard in that is generated via ai and giving it prompts and bpm specifications and uh, telling it kind of the genre focus and going through hundreds of iterations to find decent songs. But I sent them like, hey, here's, like these seven or eight desert themed kind of uh, dark, foreboding dnd soundtrack uh tracks.

10:00 And uh, here's this 24 minute video or not video, but recording of this uh you know story I've put together. Let's see where it goes. I mean, like, put it together. And so, pat, uh sat down and put a ton of effort into like the sound effects and crank something out by like 1 am last night and we just decided to listen together and review it. So whatever amount of that survives and goes in to be shown off to you all, give us feedback, let us know your thoughts on it, because we think the technology is really cool and it's right there. Like it's so close, like I could really see feasibly in under a year, we could use this to tell long form stories.

10:43 We could use this to tell long form stories, um, and, if anything like, also use it to, uh, help add like another dimension to entertainment for the podcast, you know, an audio only format usually. Um, so, yeah, I guess, before I move on to any of our other talking points, pat, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to speak to her as well and your thoughts on the technology, your thoughts on, like you know, really scoping out like what we created in under 24 hours of work between the two of us and how, really, like over a year ago, two years ago, that would have taken a team months, right, you know like, or at least weeks in a recording booth and sound effects and licensing and searching, especially if you let's say you got to have, um, there were six voices involved, right, so that'd be, six people there and then the biggest, a couple big things you know you have all right, so just your voice actors alone, and then you have your um and then music production.

11:43 The music production is a piece that's always like it's that the music production for things is always something that so many people go into, that there's so many people layers in that that are involved that people don't know about. And so just to have a good, you know, have some good music in the background typically takes a lot of people to do and so even just right there alone, you have a lot of personnel involved. And then you know, uh, time wise on, yeah, coordinating those groups putting out. So you have audio recording and music production and then sound design. But then, and then prior to that, you have your writing pieces and stuff and, like you said, you wrote, you wrote that.

12:26 And then sound design. But then and then prior to that, you have your writing pieces and stuff and, like you said, you wrote, you wrote that and then used. You know you did use AI to help you. If I understand right, you use AI, helped you kind of. Um, you know, like you said, maybe some writers block things like hey, like you know, helped you kind of edit it or review it as well, and you'd run it through to kind of refine it, and so the yeah, the product that you're able to put out in a very short amount of time. It's pretty impressive, I think, and this, you know. Whatever, however much we and also being vague about like how much we're going to share, because part of it is like this is, in its own way, a little bit of a rough draft, we're like we're excited to keep on improving it and have a more final product that's gone through, so there is more time will be put into all the parts of it.

13:20 But that's crazy, though, too to think like that's our rough draft, right, right, because also like saying, like you know, so take it two, three years ago, yeah, it'd be a lot all the parts of it. But that's crazy, though, too, to think like that's our rough draft, right, right Cause, like saying, like you know, so take it two, three years ago, yeah, it'd be a lot of time, but then take, let's say, we take it back to, um, uh, you know, heck, 10, 20, 30 years ago, like that is the quality of product out there. It would be just as good, if not better, than a lot of other stuff that was coming out around, especially like now. Granted, we do have the ability to use. The collaboration piece here is huge because, for instance, like all the sound effects I'm able to use, I don't have to go in a room and tink around on a metal can with a spoon next to a microphone, you don't have to be a fully artist right free time I can go online to um a couple of different.

14:15 I have a couple different um sound. I have a couple different subscriptions to different uh sound catalogs that I use for stuff and able to just type in exact almost exactly what I want and find it and pull it and throw it in and kind of tweak it for my purposes. Um, but uh, and I think part of it too is like it's just really fun. I enjoy doing this stuff. That's where and I didn't have to crank this out for a professional deadline, but when you sent me this stuff, I was just excited to get to work on creating something where I can take something and, um, bring in the little pieces that really tie it together.

14:57 You know, so, like you, really, you really put together the meat of you know, or I would say like like you. You had the meat and the skeleton on there of this thing and then I got to come in and I got to give it the haircut. Give it the haircut, give some tats, give it exactly. And I got to. I got to dress it up. You have to give it some weapons, give it a cool hat. You know like and um and so, and that's where I like to come in on things too, is where I like to tie everything together and thinking through little things. You know, okay, when the music drops out here, what does? What emotion does that evoke? And most people aren't, as most people aren't actively listening and thinking through that as they consume something like this, but it's subconscious.

15:47 And so having those little things tuned in there, where there's a little, you know the music fades out or there's the sound of a little bit of sand, you know, rustling these things, these textures to the project, really bring it to life. Um, and kind of like old school radio show, is fun too. I've always thought that old school radio shows were super awesome I used to have, like I was such a big fan of them, like. And then you go, like you know, uh, back like pre-tv, where it was like family around the radio type stuff, like they used to have 100 people in a room to do a radio, a radio show, where there's you know, um, there's a choir and voice actors and a conductor and a director, and and then there's a guy over there with the giant, like you know, like you've seen that giant warble board that makes like thunder.

16:38 You know, like he's doing that, or he has that thing. He spins above his head to make the wind, you know, and all that and those guys are so cool because they were doing that. Or he has that thing. He spins above his head to make the wind, you know, and all that. And those guys are so cool because they were doing that on the spot. Analog super talented individuals Can you imagine the excitement in the guy, though, who first was like hey, Freed, tell me what this sounds like. And he started warbling the sheet metal. He's like I don't know, James, that sounds like thunder. He's like it does. Don't know, james, that smells. That sounds like thunder. Yeah, it's like it does, don't it? I could stand behind people make them think it's thunder and what I love about that stuff now too, is, as it's progressed through time, there are a ton of sounds out there that, um, aren't the real sound but because we have consumed so much media, to us it is the sound.

17:25 You know, whatever? A TIE fighter zipping by? That is not a TIE fighter. That's not a spaceship. Now, every spaceship movie uses sounds like that. But you know what that was. That was just a tire on wet pavement being recorded with a microphone and then being either sped up or slowed down and altered in a sound booth. Was a tire on pavement? That's actually that's one of the main star wars sounds. Yeah, the tie fighter? I think so. Wow, I've always. I don't know. I thought the tie fighter was like the scream, the type of is the screaming? You know the? screaming. It is a screaming one. That's true. I I'm it. It is a screaming one, that's true. It might be that I'm going to need to look it up, but I do know.

18:08 Like for Star Wars, one of the key ones is like just a tire on wet pavement. Once you hear that, you're like what? That's all it was but genius. But now we get to like I was saying now don't think tire on wet pavement. You think something high fighter, something a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Bro dude, the sound of adats walking across the snow will always stay with me, the you know what you're talking about? oh, yeah, for sure. And so, um, like we were talking about earlier, um, we're also like how a car door shutting a thud they put that in every fight scene you've ever seen has thuds that are nothing like someone getting punched, but now, that's what we think of.

18:54 So it's fun to take these sounds now and just apply them and and layer them and bring something to life. And, being someone who likes to create stuff too, like we do, we don't have time, capacity, money or like also like the talent necessarily to be like doing this professionally or for, you know, for, for, for a living, and so we're, but we're able to take what we like to do and apply it and create a product that we can be proud of and that we feel like is is professional, is good, you know, you know, does that make sense? yeah, I think so. I mean, I definitely think that you know it's the same feeling I got as a kid when I realized, like you know, in I don't know, 2007, 2008, I realized I was like, wow, I can make home videos.

19:47 Like I can make home videos and put them on youtube. And um, it was cool to see to like all these other people who were kind of doing the same thing and then making like tutorials of how to do it. So, like corridor digital and freddy w, and they were like literally making a tutorial called how to shoot your friends with vfx and it just like said, showed like here's exactly how we do the muzzle flash and the blood effect and, yeah, assets we use. And I just remember being like what and then going out with a camera recording with my friends putting in the computer pirating adobe after effects and adobe premiere in sony vegas, and then just be like all right after hours and hours of my poopy computer with it like bare minimum graphics card trying to render it and rendering, and I have this super low quality made out of goober like fight scene and blood effects and muzzle flashes.

20:38 But it was fun and it was awesome to just know like that was accessible, like that was within reach and it really did feel like as a kid, like with that being in reach, it did feel like you know. It honestly made me feel like unique in the knowledge I had and that, like you know, I was kind of I had something that not everyone had. Um, it was just like a cool niche to be in as a kid because you know so many other kids like, when they're trying to do home videos and stuff, they don't have that knowledge and they're just recording on a handy cam. You know, the muzzle flash might just be like a cut out piece of paper or a flashlight right, or there is no muzzle flash and there is no blood.

21:20 It's just like imagination, you know um it and so like all that I thought was like just so much fun. I remember, dude, like the most fun I had was recording a video at a park, um down in a suburban neighborhood in uh south of denver and we recorded this video with airsoft guns painted black and it was like a drug deal that went down bad and like, uh, it ended up with like me chasing my buddy to like the back of a king supers which, like as a like high school boy, you're just like dude, the back of king supers looks so sketch, you know. They're just like drop off. Like what hour of the night do they drop groceries off?

22:02 And I just remember, like we were filming this and he's like we had my buddy on the camera just like catching different angles, and I had, like this airsoft gas blowback pistol. My other buddy had the revolver and he was acting out of ammo and he's just like bro, we could talk about this, we can make a deal. He's like backing up, backing up to the garage door. I was like no man, it's too late for that. Remember, just like you know you're just squeezing the trigger and the little airsoft guns like clicking, clicking, clicking, cause you know it's got like just gas in it and no BBs or anything. And he faked, you know, like he was getting shot up. And then we watched it over and we were so excited and there's a lot of stuff we cut out and a lot of stuff that was garbage or you know, but we edited it together, put in the blood and the muzzle effects and we were like, dude, this is a legit, fun, homemade movie where we're all shooting each other and it's so fun.

22:52 And it was so like you know, uh, grassroots, kind of renegade, like we knew we were going to get in so much trouble. The police department was right next to us, yeah, and Well, the police department was right next to us, yeah, I'm shocked that we did not get in trouble when we were recording. It was just like that, you know, feeling of like you're creating something that everyone thinks is a million miles out of reach. And that's kind of the same feeling I was getting with this and the excitement I had yesterday when I was working on it was just like. You know, I'm not saying this is you know the next Da Vinci's code, right? Yeah, or whatever you know. And I'm not saying this is you know the next davinci's code, right? Yeah, or whatever you know, whatever you want, because this is not the next 50 shades of gray. Um, dude, imagine having to make the sound effects. Imagine I totally sent you an absolutely different video, like not video, but recording, and I was like, hey, can you put sound effects to this?

23:38 you're like, oh my god I'd have to pull out some middle school maneuvers. I can make certain body parts sound like other body parts, because I was in middle school once. Yeah, but yeah no. So I think like it scratches that itch and it's all of a sudden like wow, like I could legit see, like you know, a literal published audio book one day under Make a Pat Studios you know what I mean, and like that would not be very hard to do or very expensive, right. Other a pat studios, you know what I mean, and like that would not be very hard to do or very expensive, right? Um other than marketing. I guess marketing is always the uphill battle, dude. What if we end up like those people I was making fun of on the comic con video? we're just going there's like at these conventions, just you and I sitting there.

24:19 We'd actually we should just take cutouts of ourselves, because of course we're not going to sit there and reveal our identities like that'd actually be a great booth where you um the way ai is going, but you do a cutout with like a. It looks cheesy because you have a old school like megaphone style speaker in the back of the cutout for the mouth and people can come ask us questions and it just has. But it's cheap, ai, it's pre-programmed responses that don't actually answer what they want. So they're like, hey, like what are you thinking about when you like did this part and you're like glad you're here, check out our book and it just and that's what it is. But uh, what? hey, there, ken, thanks for showing up exactly free sticker with every book purchase.

25:06 And then you just set up this. It's a bin that says stickers, but you just set it out empty, bro, people just always think they're always out of stickers. Yeah, and to that point being cheap is the fact that so okay, so you already have 25 minutes or something. So you know, let's say, if you buckle, buckle down, you could have a full thing out in a month. Oh yeah, which would be like the um, the cost benefit there, like the amount of effort you have to put into that is just so, so much less time and energy, money, like all the people you're paying to.

25:48 Where you could like, you could risk it, you could put together audiobooks, stories and things and put them out there. And it's not. It's not such a big hit when nobody buys your book that you literally spent four years writing you know, what I mean. You're like yeah, we put this together in three weeks. Hope you like it yeah, you know, and I was like actually looking into it too, like just to try to understand, especially because I'm a game of thrones fan and george rr martin says, like on a good day, he writes. He writes like a page, page and a half, wow, and his books are 1500 pages. Yeah, so so is he. That book's never coming out. He's like he said he's at like a thousand pages in it and it's supposed to be the biggest one of the series so far, it's book six.

26:29 But, granted, he puts out great content with engaging stories tracking multiple characters across different times and regions, and it's very engaging and it feels very believable when you're listening to and reading it. Um, so I'm not saying anywhere remotely, I'm putting out content equivalent to his right. But yesterday, uh, putting out faster, I put out eight, no nine pages to do that, I think yesterday, maybe 10. And then today, when I was working on, like, uh, doing a horror one, a horror short story, quick nine pages today, yeah, and like that's bullet points, that's outlines, right, and that's like not even like after taking it and having, um, my writing algorithm work with me to flesh out and find you know anywhere I was inconsistent, or like review dialogue that just doesn't sound human right.

27:23 And so then, like I work with that to refine it. Um, and that's kind of the cool thing too is like ai can literally be like this sounds clunky, or be like you might want to consider rephrasing this right, and uh, it's like gone to the point where, like, the robot is the editor now and like can tell me, like when stuff doesn't sound like it doesn't come off the tongue right um, or read right when, uh, you're reading it in your head. So but, all that said, it's pretty fun. I'm super enthusiastic about it. I'm gonna keep on playing with it, man, because I just think like we legit could do something fun even if it's, even if it ends up being like we just have something where, like, once a month, we drop a nice 20 minute short story, or you know, or like, even like you know you were talking about the radio shows, that just, uh, you know, now, gun smoke was every week, right, but that was a production, right, you know, right, and you over probably what 100 people working on Gunsmoke at one point in time, right, as an audio drama.

28:21 So I do think that would be cool and I was kind of thinking too. I was like it'd be cool to do it and if people enjoy it, they could submit their own stories, like whether it was from Dungeons and Dragons or something they wrote, like whether it was from Dungeons and Dragons or something they wrote and like as a Patreon thing. they submit it and we record it and, you know, provide acting and sound effects for it. Yeah, and I think it's already going to be two years since the airport one. Since we started working on it yes, we never released it here Because it was Christmas, but there was nothing about that.

29:01 That was AI back then. That's true, that was all, yeah, you and I, and it was such an uphill thing of like working on it because I was like, dude, this is going to be so much effort and I definitely don't want to like, I don't have the energy nor the desire to do like the voice of like five different characters myself or try to. I don't want to talk like a woman for all the female dialogue so, but that one, that story did spooky. You did, you like it, I liked it. I was excited for what was going to happen. It was such a setup for something wild bro dude, I'm happy you feel that way, because I think it's like 10 times better after like literally hammering our way at it all day today. Oh yeah, um, here's the crazy thing. I do want to show this. So this is going to be some dialogue from that.

29:44 Actually, um, and I, you know, this is probably like a selfish like the world revolves around me, realization, right, but like it can do speech-to-text of Vietnamese, straight to um English between two different characters, uh, very quickly, um, so let me set this up real quick and then we'll play it for you all.

30:27 So here it is. Uh, the idea here would be right Narratively, um, you first hear the vietnamese being spoken, uh, in the story, right, the dialogue between two characters, vietnamese, but then the vietnamese fades into just the background sound effects, while the english is kind of read over it. So that way it's kind of that moment of realizing like, oh, the characters are speaking vietnamese, but for the but for the audience, it's translated into English. So here it is. This is Grandpa Spuds Oxley is the voice. Don't know who Spuds Oxley is, but that's the grandpa.

31:07 And then the Vietnamese man is Trung Caha, and they are going back and forth in conversation reading off two Bible verses to each other, one in Vietnamese, one in English. Now the translations, our translations. I did with Google and ChatGPT to double-check them. They translated cleanly on both. Sounds like Vietnamese to me. Yeah, and it sounds like one of them is definitely being spoken to a non-native speaker, and then the other one sounds native.

31:53 So we must work the works of him who sent me. As long as it is day, night is coming when no one can work. John 9.4. At sunset, abram slept soundly and, behold, terror and darkness fell upon him. Genesis 15, 12. That, I think, is just insane, especially because I added just the pause of like internal reflection before speaking in response, and it sounds to me like two people recording themselves talking in a sound booth.

32:37 Yeah, like it really does, and maybe I'm just biased. Maybe I'm just biased here, but it definitely is mind-blowing to me how clean that audio sounds. Yeah, I'll say this If you're told it's AI, you can hear it. Sure, but if you just played it, there'd be plenty of people. If you but that, you know what I mean but if you, if you just played it, there'd be plenty of people just be like oh, that was a computer. Yeah, like you know, I think it's um no, it's super impressive. It's especially like some of the nuance, like you just said where Vietnamese, right, yeah, vietnamese through an American accent, right, heavy American accent, right, that's impressive.

33:22 Um, so, yeah, anyways, ai is cool. Uh, I don't know what we were already gonna be at in the episode time wise, but I think we got enough time left over here that I can. Uh, I want to share something I saw that I got was captivated by a netflix trailer, uh, for a tv show. It just was so over the top in this trailer and it didn't show enough to just make me feel like I knew everything, um, right from the trailer. So I had to look it up and a lot of people were like, wow, this is crazy that they're monetizing this true story tragedy into a show. And I was like what the hell are you talking about? Like everyone shouldn't, should the news not report?

34:06 you ever seen cops? yeah, I was like should you, should the news not report? Should every crime junkie like crime podcasts ncsi should Like? No, like I think that's insane. There's a way of doing it with like at least a modicum of just like respect right. And not making fun of like or shaming. You know the tragedy that occurs in some people's lives, but also, like, you can comment on it and you can also be funny about it and bring brevity and levity to a very heavy, you know subject or story and the bad guys aren't the ones making money, right? I don't think any of them are making. I mean, they might be making money. Um, we'll see.

34:47 I'm not entirely sure where the the guys stand in life now, okay, but what really reeled me in is that it's called Monster. It's the story of Lyle and Eric Menendez I don't know how to say that E, but it follows the two of them, and it's very clear in the trailer. They kill their parents, but their parents seem like very wealthy, kind of kind of epstein epstein people. Um and uh, it looks to be like there was well, it looked like there was more beneath. You know the surface, of course, and you know some convolution to the uh reasoning behind the store, uh, behind the murders.

35:31 And then I found out it was real and that both of these brothers shot and killed their parents with shotguns. Um, and the investigation, though, turned out to be like one of the more insane high-profile investigations of like do you charge someone for murder based on the circumstances? Yes, it was cold-blooded, but it was also the result of some insane abuse. So I think a lot of people have already heard of this. You know I'm saying like millennials and older, I'm one of the millennials, you're one of the millennials who haven't. But I'm just going to read off kind of like this synopsis I typed up here, you know, to kind of like put it in a story format, so that way I'm not just not reading off internet articles and stuff like that.

36:19 But the story starts in the heart of Beverly Hills, right, and imagine we're looking at this big, opulent mansion and it's, you know, for this family, the Menendez, it is a symbol of, you know, wealth, authority, power. But what was going on inside man was some pretty unspeakable stuff. Outwardly, everyone thought that they were just a wealthy, perfect family with, you know, two healthy boys, happy wife, who was? I think she was a model at one point, if I remember correctly um, like, uh, just like her work was like winning pageants and stuff like that, um, and then the father was jose menendez.

37:07 Um, he was this self-made kind of corporate titan, um, and he's played by javier bardem which is what reeled me in. Oh, I didn't realize. This isn't like a document, this is a it's like a drama yeah, docu docu drama dramedy actors, writers, directors, yeah, okay yep, um, and apparently he was just like absolutely insanely controlling, you know, ran his house with an iron fist, literally, and uh, you know, beneath this veneer of success, he just had this like really monstrous, like perverted appetite for abuse and, uh, like found it very entertaining to think he did some weird abuse Like he, he enjoyed.

37:59 He was a masochist in that like he had abused to himself, but he also abused his wife and kids, um, and so his wife Kitty, um, you know she was essentially like this, uh, you know, beautiful, perfect, hot mom on the outside, but really like she had just kind of, apparently, in the home, just succumbed entirely to, you know, the madness of living with a husband like this and the denial of any of it being wrong. Um, and of course, you know she became entirely dependent on him for money and the lifestyle that, like his money provided, um, and she just would, she just like totally allowed and knew exactly what was going on with her sons and their father, and like she knew All the abuse that was Happening in the house and just ignored.

38:48 It Just was like, yeah, this is just our family. So Lyle and Eric Menendez, these golden boys, their father pretty much made them do some pretty, uh, insane and disturbing sexual acts. I'm not going to go into detail here. I have, you can look it up. I have actually about this case. Yeah, I mean parts of it, yeah, yeah, it's bad um, and it was, you know, years and years of mental and physical, um and sexual abuse. And as these brothers grew older, um, you know the fear that they had and keeping silent, and they didn't even actually like I'm not sure that they were ever in the room together at the same time during the abuse.

39:31 It was like he would abuse one at a time, um, and they didn't tell each other out of like embarrassment, but finally they kind of they confided in one another and I think only one of like he would abuse one at a time, and they didn't tell each other out of like embarrassment, but finally they kind of they confided in one another and I think only one of them received the sexual abuse, while the other one would get beaten or, you know, called names and stuff. And once they realized what was going on to both one another, they just, you know, they got angry and that anger just turned into a plan to finally get vengeance, like one vengeance against their dad for being a total monster and traumatizing them, and then two vengeance against a mother who totally has just been indifferent and looked the other way, so that way she can maintain her lifestyle. Um, and so, uh, one night they uh, took their shotguns.

40:16 They had apparently bought these shotguns and actually went to the range to practice with them and just understand grouping and pattern and like are we like, how far out can we shoot our parents and kill them? You know accurately, right? so they were 18 when they. They weren't minors when they did this. They were now minors, nope. And so one night they go and grab their shotguns and they confront their parents, apparently in the den where the abuse happened primarily. The abuse happened primarily, um, and you know, in a pretty brutal act of rebellion.

41:01 They shot their father first and uh blew his face off like it was not a gut shot, leg shot, it was. They shot him in the head both, each once, I believe. And then uh, kitty, uh started screaming and like, apparently this is what how they recounted, you know, she was screaming and panicking and apparently tried to start bargaining and they both confessed to like shooting her in the face, when even like didn't matter what she was saying, they just blew her away. And so now you know they'd gotten their revenge, um, but they like went into this weird like I don't know, like if they were just intoxicated with the feeling of like freedom and it's over and we're done Um, but the they kind of spiraled into like this hedonistic frenzy.

41:54 They spent tons of money, you know, empty, essentially just trying to empty the bank accounts, um, and you know, getting drunk, doing drugs, um, sleeping around, and the police pretty quickly figured out what was going on. Um, you know, eventually, you know, you start realizing no one's seen mom and dad around and bills aren't getting paid and the kids are spending it like there's no tomorrow. You go do an investigation, um, and you know, initially they were fooled by the alibis. Uh, you know cause the everyone on the outside just saw it as like a clean family, clean record, um, but then they began to get suspicious as the brother's guilt kind of manifested more and more into this, like you know, outward erratic behavior, brothers guilt kind of manifested more and more into this, like you know, outward erratic behavior.

42:40 And, uh, as it closed in eric, uh was just, you know, racked with gitlin, confided to a therapist. He was seen at the time and that therapist, of course, you know, by law, required reporting, yeah, mandatory reporting, um, and she reported them. The brothers were arrested and they went into the spotlight where you know the trial came along and of course it's like circus parade of the media, just absolutely like running the craziest headlines apparently at the time, you know again, of course I don't remember reading any of these. I was probably a kid or I might've not been born yet. It was 93. Oh, 93. I wasn't even born yet. It was 93, oh, 93, I wasn't even born yet, um, but it was just apparently like an insane you know just one speculation by the media of like what occurred, what didn't occur if the boys were the abusers, and then, of course, the you know the flip side of like, painting them out as villains and then, of course, painting them out as absolute victims and that, like you know, they had enough enough and like, should they even be charged with a crime.

43:41 So the boys claimed self-defense, they went through and provided years of you know evidence or you know narrative for the abuse, which later they had a cousin come forward to back up their testimony, talking about how, like, as a child, the cousin had known about the abuse because one of the brothers told him about it once, um, and a couple other witnesses came forward I can't remember if they were like house workers, like maids and cleaners or something like that, but like other people had become aware of it. Um, you know, I think Kitty also let some things slip, and so, um, the court, though, was pretty divided, um, some saw him as victims and some saw him, as you know, cold blooded killers, just, you know, driven by greed to get mom and dad's money, and they ended up getting each getting convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

44:34 Um, and so they were separated and each of them, you know, were in solitary confinement just due to the one. They were seen as traumatized and not suitable for general population in prisons. And two super highly violent offenders, um, and so, uh, for decades. You know, they're just kind of sitting in jail, oh, sorry, in prison. And you know, there's, like now, like been times of people talking about how there's like, apparently like types of hauntings, apparently in the Menendez house, which is like weird, meninette's house, which is like weird, uh, and that's kind of like, I guess, like the most recent, modern, uh, like mansion, rumors of like there's like apparitions, like the trauma and abuse has manifested and like evil spirits are, you know, remaining there for what occurred, which it kind of, does you know, if you think about it, plays like amityville horror, if you've ever seen that movie like an abusive father figure whose eldest son grabs a shotgun and just shoots everyone one night, um, but uh, which is also weird because that's a true story too, did you?

45:47 know that amityville horror it's like one of the most insane cases of possession. Um, and you know, this kid claimed that the demon possessed him and made him kill his whole family with a shotgun one night. It was in like New Hampshire or Maryland, but anyways, crazy though is that, I mean they've been in prison. I think they're still both in prison currently, according to the latest updates from like what I was reading around, but they both got married in prison. That happens. That happens a lot. There's some crazy people out there, but they both got married in prison. That happens. That happens a lot. There's some crazy people out there. I swear there are more guys. Okay, statistically. It's easier to get married as a prisoner than it is to be a man out there on the streets.

46:31 Yeah, it's easier if you're a murderer to have a woman become obsessed with you and want to marry you than it is to be like normal Joe Schmoe on the streets trying to find love. Now that's an exaggeration but it is crazy how many girls fangirl over murders. That phenomenon should be studied, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, it's weird man. It's the ultimate I can change him. Maybe I don't think it's that, I don't know I think it's like a deeper fantasy of like I want to be abused, I want to like be so close to the. It's kind of like, probably you know what it is. It's probably like why men die earlier because men find that edge to put themselves at risk and feel the rush, or you know the excitement.

47:13 Like poking a moose, right, you know. Or slapping a bull's ass right, just can't help it, but like men aren't like, yeah, I want to be in the same room with the serial killer and like see if he won't kill me. Yeah, but like for women, I think it is. I think it's the same for very particular set of women yeah, for very particular, you're right it's not all women, right? uh, I do wonder though, sometimes about you know, my billy jean and her friends and her family, and how many of those women just love listening to murder while they fall asleep like true crime. Yeah, exactly right, um, but anyways, uh yeah. So lyle married, uh, reed and Eric married Anna Erickson.

47:59 They divorced in 2001. And I think Lyle is still married. Eric married a Tammy Ruth Sackman. Their wedding cake was a Twinkie. They have a little file hidden in it. Lol, that'd be awesome. In 2005, sackman self-published a book. They said We'd Never Make it my Life with Eric Menendez. Eric did a lot of editing and contribution to the book, apparently according to her and Eric's quoted as saying Not having sex in my life is difficult, but it's not a problem for me. Lot of editing and contribution to the book, apparently, according to her and uh eric's quoted as saying not having sex in my life is difficult, but it's not a problem for me.

48:40 I have to be emotionally attached and I'm emotionally attached to eric. Oh no, sorry, this is what his wife said. Uh, tammy, my family does not understand. When it started to get serious, some of them just threw up their hands like no way. No, what. Your family was disappointed, dude. I just want people to like one of my favorite analogies I ever heard about not having sex or trying to be romantically involved with people in jail. It was in my sheriff deputy training and they said here. They literally just took a marker on the whiteboard and they drew a circle on the board. Like here is everyone who is in jail or prison, uh, in the world.

49:27 And then they drew this massive, massive circle around it. You know a hundred times the size and like here is everyone else and they're like you can have sex with these people, yeah. And then they poke the tiny circle and they're like don't have sex with these people. It was like the book. He's like everybody understand, everybody understand which group you can have romantic relationships with and I just thought it was like the most played, like yeah, why on earth would you pick those people? There's an old phrase plenty of fish in the sea. Yeah, yeah, no man, we're star-crossed lovers baby.

50:07 There's another one called shooting fish in a barrel. That's true. Where are they going to run? They'll just follow you to your next prison. What's the deal with conjugal visits? Is that real? Is that hollywood thing? they are real but they're not very common, yeah, I mean, but they are real, especially for, like, uh, private prisons that have like a lot of chain gangs that get released anyways to go do road work or like performances so probably like lower like maybe they just put them in a trailer. It's a trailer in the yard, bro. I know it's just, it's a horrible, it's gotta be horrible you know, yeah, dude, I'd never, I don't know not, I don't want to ever, ever end up in that situation, um, but anyways, so that's kind of like the story behind the uh, the men and yendas, lyle and eric, and what occurred, um, yeah, I was debating talk going into more detail, but I think that's enough and I think that's enough of like a brief overview for people to be like, oh, I'm interested in that and seeing what happened, or, oh, that's uh, that's dark and that's enough, and I know enough now to have a conversation about it and it it's nuanced enough there to be like, okay, the law, like the way these guys were tried under the law Um, how to say this?

51:29 You know, basically they broke the law and they murdered people Also from there like tested. If the testimonies these guys gave were true, it doesn't justify their murder, but it does help. It does give another side of the story to go. Okay, here is how someone got to this place. And or like, uh, if, if, this was a western no, totally fine, it's unforgiven. But somebody might not have as big a problem with it if it was set in 18 yes right, um, but that being said, yes, it is, uh, uh, it's a sad story, it's an interesting story and it's an interesting case study on ethics, morality and the law of man and the law of your nation and the law under God.

52:32 Like you know, there's different, uh, there's not just one set of rules yeah, yeah, no, definitely, and uh, it's no. I mean I think you nailed it on the head. I mean I'm personally like when I see stuff like that, I'm like well, and nothing was lost. You know, I mean like awful people met awful ends. I don't feel like it was a tragedy. I don't think we lost anything of value to society right if you're. If you're giving it like the, just the, yeah, the um, oh, what's the word for it? Not, not egalitarian? What the hell does that word even mean? I'm sorry, I'm like, so the um?

53:13 I had the word and I totally lost it. But you know, if you're given this like it's the same way we evaluate how we manage animals, like, which would be this Are you, is it for the? If you're doing just like the, very like utilitarian, good of the herd versus good of the individual type thing. Like good of the herd, this was this individual type thing. Like, yes, good of the herd, this was this. You know, all parties involved. Probably, like you said, we didn't get set back from more micro analysis tragedy, you know anyways, yeah, the show it's gonna be called monster on netflix, if you're interested in that stuff.

54:01 Uh, I'm not sure if I'm gonna watch yet, but it did catch me. I mean, or actually I'm gonna be honest, I'm definitely gonna watch episode one because of harvey or bardem, I mean anything he's in, I'm gonna watch. Yeah, he's just got. He's such a good, he's a good good guy and a good bad guy. For real. It's a and I you know the one thing, knowing some of the details of that case, it's going to be really weird or bad to turn it into a full show. Did you watch the trailer? No, well, watch the trailer, because I'm pretty sure they're not going to shy away from some of the really fucked up shit. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying is like the level of like graphic stuff that they put on TV nowadays, yeah, like this is like you know, it's bad, yep.

54:51 So you know, would Mace Windu watch that with you, since it's about true crime murderers? uh, no, she this just makes her sad dude. Okay, I'll tell you this. We don't watch. I get this. We don't watch malcolm in the middle dude. I love malcolm in the middle, but that dude, the intro to malcolm in the middle, gave me nightmares as a kid. It is like that intro video as like a six-year-old made me terrified. It's a fever dream with godzilla and all these things going on, but so you're not the boss of me now. Sorry dude. I love that show. I love not coming in the middle that's just so good. She doesn't see it as a comedy, she sees it as a tragic, dysfunctional family, a truly awful over-controlling mother and a father who is like yeah, father who's literally like you know.

55:42 One more bad day away from suicide. Like it's, it's a brutal like I get it, like everyone does like the self-analysis not self-analysis, but like the um hindsight analysis of Malcolm in the middle, after they finish it and they're like you know what? She was a bad mom. It was like no way, really yeah. She was a bad mom. There's the reason why some of this stuff's funny. If she was a good mom, there'd be no show. Yeah, exactly, exactly so. But yeah, no, so this is like, this gets too wild, too real for, like my wife, you know, like she's a therapist a therapist mandatory reporting, like the reason why I know the phrase mandatory reporting my wife she has to do that stuff you know, but so she would not watch it.

56:27 I may give it. I may give the first episode a shot, but I don't know how deep I went into this. Yeah, that's true, that's true. We'll see yeah Wild, we'll see yeah wild. Anyways, um, all right, uh, little updates I would say from quick last things from the summer videos or movies I was watching right, or tv shows and movies and audiobooks, because we were doing that a little while ago. Um, I started watching banshee and it is trash. Um, it's entertaining fight scenes but it is like it's like the old, old school version of like hbo shows and stuff that were like it.

57:07 You know, dedicated five, ten minutes an episode of sex scenes and um, it's just like the decisions people make the meandering. So if it's carnal, yeah, we want it to be violent. Oh yeah, and it's carnal, only we want it to be violent Is carnal, only sexual. I think it is. I mean, you think it just means of the flesh. That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. So if it's carnal in that sense, like we want it to be, swords. Yeah. So anyways, banshee was top of the like end in television, like fight scenes and choreography. That was entertaining. I didn't finish it cause I just could not get past how dumb the characters were at times and how it's pretty schlocky, and I think that was the intention.

57:53 Um, the uh other show we just started, um and finished up to season two. Season three is about to drop here, september 20th is From. It's a horror one I think I mentioned before, but it's really good. It's just like Lost, but darker, scarier. Oh yeah, you were telling us about this. Yeah, dude, it's so good I really encourage people to watch it. It's on MGM+. What's the title From? From Just F-R-O-M. No-transcript.

58:35 And season three is coming out so you could just binge it after season three is out. The other one we just finished I'm trying to remember it was like a one and done season. I can't remember. I have finished another couple of D&D books that were really entertaining, but the one that I'm really enjoying right now is called Hyperion. Have you ever heard of Hyperion? Hyperion is like an old school not old school, but like 80s or 90s sci-fi book series. It's four books and they're called the Hyperion Cantos. This first book follows these seven people in this super futuristic, you know space opera like scenario, as they've all been allowed to do a final pilgrimage to this weird burial tomb site that is essentially being patrolled by this entity known as the Shrike.

59:37 And a lot of people now, in this future sci-fi civilization you know, galaxy spanning civilization believe like the shrike is like one of the few non-human, like sentient entities that exist and a lot of people believe it to be satan and it's like it's got like a lot of crazy religious undertones that are really interesting to see how it played like. It's got like a lot of crazy religious undertones that are really interesting to see how it played out. It's in like sci-fi but, uh, each chapter of the first book is the background of each character that led them to being offered to come on the pilgrimage and it's kind of it's kind of like the most classic facets of storytelling.

1:00:17 Like you have the priest who is on a final embarking journey of faith and testing of faith and then you have a like retired colonel, glorified military general, who knows the truth of his service and is essentially embarking on this quest to justify his own title. You have kind of this. I mean you have definitely like what is known as the consul, and the consul is kind of like the navigator or the captain of a ship, and he is essentially also like your classic character of, you know, wife, child dead, and like he continues to go on living.

1:01:07 But what for you know? And it has to really kind of confront those. There's the, there's the Jewish philosopher, there's the poet philosopher, there's the um dirty background, noir, space detective, and all of them have their own story of why they were offered this pilgrimage. And now they're all here on this planet, going to this pilgrimage site and likely to die, like no one's ever returned and so, but this is the last time they're going to offer it. Uh, before, like, essentially the planet's off-limited, it's uh, it's a very like old school sci-fi setting, but it's very entertaining and, just like our audiobook, it's narrated by like seven actors, one for each character.

1:01:54 Oh nice, and it is very well done. I think it's very entertaining. Victor Bavine is one of my favorite narrators and he narrates the bulk, I would say, of the book, but every time a piece of dialogue comes in from one of the other characters, it's narrated by their voice actor. Oh cool, so it's pretty sweet, but anyways, so that's kind of what I've been reading so far or watching, and what I've been enjoying. So, pat, anything from you, anything you listen to I know you were listening to a couple books. Yeah, I was listening through. Right now I'm listening to 1984. Oh yeah, I just got that for free on Audible. I think it was free in the library. It's free on Audible.

1:02:35 It's you know it's good. You like it. I do, but it's just scary. Yeah. That it's good. You like it in it, I do, but just it's just scary. Yeah, that's all you're just I mean, we live it yeah yeah, like that's now you know. Yeah, those things, but um show or movie. Wise man, I need to get on some new stuff because my go-to like at this right I have not remember like how I told you I was like for a while I was. Just Nicholas Caged or Liam Neeson, liam Neeson, liam Neeson, yeah, but like. But in that time too, I mean, I was like I was hitting like a movie at night, Bro, All right. I got something for you. All sorts of things and so. But now I'm like I'm just on a like, not a lot, which is not bad.

1:03:17 We're not really watching too much TV, true. But then at the same time, it's like if I want to watch something, I'm just putting on Psych, sitting down watching one episode of Psych and I'm going to bed. Stop doing that, I know. I have a new show for you All, right A show that I think is right up your alley. Yeah, you should watch Homeland. All right, I like the first couple episodes oh my gosh I know, and that that that's a show I could watch with mace windu. So that would be. I don't think you can really I think it gets way too intense. It gets too intense there's times where I thought I was gonna have a heart attack yeah like there's never been another show to get my adrenaline so high. All right, we're checking out homeland dude. It's so good and so I have been crushing out um.

1:03:58 Here's the deal jack car, james reese, terminalist series yeah, that's right. You've been blazing through those. I read them all and. But I mean, I do, I love those books. They're they're just literally um outlets. Oh yeah, it's straight up outlet and it's a lot of things I like, like it's it's it. I mean, you know, I don't think I'm being exaggerative here, but it's like it's masculine, it's man smut. I was gonna say, yeah, it's masculine, masturbation like it's, it's like you're you're reading it in your brain and visualizing it. You're like yeah, kill those guys. Oh yeah, no, for real it's. It's definitely man smut, um, and it is um is a good character, good development.

1:04:40 I think I do like Jack Carr's writing. It's easy, quick to consume and it is like he's a total gear whore. He's always bringing up stuff that I like, that I love, yeah, and I really like Jack Carr, from what I know about him as well, and I like his books, and so that also led me to now. I'm like he seems like a good guy. While I'm waiting for those books to continue coming out, um, I've been reading the old school Jack Ryan like books, so yeah, the Tom. Clancy stuff. Because of what I said, I was like I was about to pick up rainbow six, start reading rainbow six, but one of the main characters from rainbow six is from jack ryan yep series, so like I had to go all the way back, start at the beginning and go all the way through.

1:05:29 Um, and I loved all jack ryan, like the old jack ryan movies as a kid, with harrison ford, um, and so going through those and that's what, when I'm going to sleep at night, like instead of watching a whole movie now, I'm like I'll read for 30 minutes, yeah, on a thriller, go to bed and that's been, that's been good and yeah, it's not, it's definitely no east of eden, it's not 1984. But also, while I'm falling asleep at night, like much better during the day, I'll hit the you know other, those other books on audiobooks and, and that's why I also don't want to just listen to I still need to actually read stuff. So that's the stuff that I read, read and then the stuff that's above my level. I'm audiobooking, because that's how I get it done.

1:06:12 I do really think you should go back and give the second book in the Three-Body Problem a shot. I should, because I truly think now, like after watching the series and I know like the way you felt about the first one I like the first one. You kind of scared me away from the next two really, just because you like. I just have to. I have to gear up for the the long bits I mean it can be long but, bro, like the second one is so good and like easily the scariest book I've ever read and I didn't like panic sweats and I didn't watch that whole show. I only watched the first two episodes oh really so I didn't ruin. I didn't ruin like, because I know they brought in a lot of the themes of the second season.

1:06:57 Some characters, yeah so, all right, I'll put it. I'll put it on the list. It's so good and it's very well narrated. Um, all right, cool, well, uh, oh, yeah. Last thing I was gonna say yeah, this is not an advertisement. This is not an advertisement. This is not a political advertisement. I've been on the phone hours this week arguing with people in India about how we are not advertising for any candidates just because we mentioned that sleepy guy had COVID. And. I and in that episode I accidentally said his name, that he had COVID in there Like that's advertising. I'm like it's not advertising. He's not even doing anything.

1:07:37 He's not even running anymore. I don't even know if he's the president right now. Yeah, so, but anyways, I saw Orange Man's. Orange man was being interviewed by Lex Friedman, oh yeah, and that was an excellent interview. I mean you can watch it honestly too, because both of them speak so slowly when they're just like going back and forth in a dialogue. I watched it on 2X and I understood everything. Nice, and it made it a 45-minute interview to like 20 minutes. But if you do anything at all to just try to better educate yourself, I encourage you to watch Orange man in that interview and you will see.

1:08:18 Like, whoa, wait a second. I don't think the media is being entirely honest in his portrayal of this guy, cause I'm not even saying like his policies and what he talked about in this interview were, you know, stuff blown out of the water. But you watch that and you're like this is not the behavior of an individual who I think is dangerous. This is not like poor behavior, right, like it's a very presidential interview. And, uh, I also think same thing could be said if you look at any candidates when they're interviewed by something. That's not like a rehearsed, right, you know long-form podcasts are where it's at right now like, yeah, like there's a reason like you can't believe he was on theo yeah, he was on theo and he was on, uh, orange guy also got interviewed by a couple others that I was watching.

1:09:05 um, he did theo, he did the twitch streamers, he did uh, another one recently sean ryan. Sean ryan, yeah, and like it was just weird, like you watch them and you can tell like, dude, they're not, this isn't scripted, like that. He didn't tell them what they can ask and what they can't ask, and like that's what I loved about the Lex Friedman one, because if you want to see him get put on the spot like legit on the spot Friedman's, like hey, what about Epstein's Island? How do you feel about that list? How do you feel about marijuana? How do you feel about people saying you're fascist and you're painting the enemy as a communist? I think the best thing he said that wasn't even a question, it was just a statement. He said I truly think you're at your best when you were talking about the future and not talking down your competition.

1:09:54 And he said that and you could see, orange guy was like he like internalized it. Lex said that to him, you could like. He like internalized it. Yeah, that's, lex said that to him, you could see, he like internalized it and he was like you know you might be onto something there. Like you're probably right, I probably am at my best when I'm talking future and not getting wrapped up and talking down, and it was. It was just one of those things that you were like wow, dude, this is not at all who you think this guy is. Yep. And I think the ear piercing he got helped him out a little bit on that front, got him some street cred. Oh, okay, yeah, some humility there. And so the long-form podcasts that are uncut with these guys, I think is like it's the future man, it's super important and I'll tell you what Everyone thought.

1:10:44 The Smiley Lady interview with CNN was the most boring thing. It was so boring, clearly scripted softball, underhanded questions that were definitely like you can ask that. You can ask that, you can't ask that. And even those responses just not real. They're not from a real person. I would love to see her go on any of these things. And and even those responses just not real. Not, they're not from a real person, no, they're like it's like I would love to see her go on any of these things just to see like genuine questions be genuine, but yeah, but here's the deal. They can't like. She can't because she's so rotten and evil. Can anyone guess who? pat is voting for just kidding. We talk about it all the time. It's no secret. No, it's like, it's like gosh.

1:11:25 We were uh, yeah, I mean, what the heck? So I, and and the fact that you know, um, if you, if I straight, if you take all the time that he has been public and speaking in these formats, compared to her, there is um, she's in the basement with old sleepy guy. Yeah, they're basemating her with old sleepy guy and they are it's like they're kind of protecting her getting like any possible bad exposure, close the gap on some polling with, uh you know, a big push and then just kind of hoping it rides out.

1:12:07 Yeah, and plays out, and so we'll see how it happens, man I'm still not even buying the numbers that are advertised on either side oh no, for sure, you know like the polling I've never had faith in. I can't remember a single poll that I thought got it right, oh yeah. But what I do find interesting is the people who are on the ground going up to, like randos in New York or California, where there's these big you know they're not quote unquote battleground, but they're predominantly states where you think you know exactly who people are voting for. They're like, who are you voting for? The amount of people voting for Orange Guy, or you know the people you see Voting for Smiley Lady or what they say. It's just very surprising.

1:12:48 I think I'm still going to vote for Yoked Warbly Voice. I'm going to vote for a president Candidate who can do pull-ups. That's who gets my vote this year. Have you seen him doing pull-ups? Yeah, that's who gives my vote this year. They should okay here. Have you seen him doing pull-ups? Yeah, and here's the deal god, his biceps are insane. His biceps look like someone wrapped wet t-shirts around his arms with like uh, uh, cellophane packing, like that's just how rigid and torqued they are. Oh yeah, and you know, maybe if you, if you want to enter the arm service, no matter which one it is, they have a physical fitness situation. Yeah, test going on right.

1:13:28 And so if you're commander in chief of the whole dang thing, you gotta do maybe you need to be like like yeah you want to pull up five push-ups, you know, five sit-ups exhibit some form of physical capability. I agree, but you know, we'll see we'll see. Yep, all right. Um, well, anyways, that's kind of all I had for the show today. I mean, we've we've gone on plenty, and it could be a long episode, depending how long our our opening is. So, pat, you got any any last sign-offs? Anything to say here? You know, we ended up wrapping this thing up doing a little politics. And like I'm saying when I say we'll see, is I'm just not that worried about it.

1:14:09 Yeah, me neither. I could, if I think about it too much, get a little upset, but I'm just not that worried deep down in my soul about it. My soul is good to go. So make sure your soul is good to go. So make sure your soul is good to go out there and just don't put your faith in you know people put it in higher places and you actually can't put your faith in people put it. Put it in your friends and your family and people who are around you you know, when they let you down forgive them Exactly. Have generosity Exactly, so you can put some faith in folks. Don't put your faith in politicians. Yeah, no kidding. And if you're itching to get creative, because we were created in an image of something and that means that, therefore, we like to create, because we were created by a creator, so we want to create stuff, so go download some AI junk or go buy a violin from a secondhand store and create something, because that is a beautiful outlet for the way we were made to be.

1:15:15 Amen. Well, with that, Ken, till next time.