The Mick & Pat Show - Surviving Bears, Tornadoes, and Modern Warfare

0:01 The reason I'm a bad fisherman is I don't have patience. The secret to catching fish is having a hook in the water. You do have to have the right thing on the hook Is that the secret? I think it is you do have to have the right thing on and be in a good spot, but at the same time you've got to have that hook in the water a lot and that's how you're going to catch stuff. I think it's a good philosophy for life too, like if that, if the hook's not in the water, you can't catch anything. If you've got, if you've got everything done right, you have all the. You have a, the nicest rod, the nicest setup, all the right bait. You've read every book about fishing, but you don't have the hook in the water, can't catch the fish.

0:42 That's true. I guess that's kind of like. That's everything else, dude, like you could, you're gonna have all the nicest you know, the nicest gun with the nicest optic, nicest ammo, but if you don't go out there and lay belly prone and put rounds in paper, you're never gonna be a good shot unless you're me, you know I don't have, I I visualize, I do a lot of visualizing and, uh, it saves a lot of money on ammo. Does it really? It does, yes how do you? You're sure you're a good shot in my in my visualizations I am a uh crack shot because, uh, I've watched a lot of westerns and uh, yeah, that's really all you need to do, you know, watch a couple westerns and think about it a lot, all right?

1:30 name, this name, this western movie. All right, can I step? I'm better if I step oh, it's, uh, it's not. 310 to yuma, is it no, no, oh what it's older it's about a famous duo. Oh yeah, yep, butch cassie sundance kid, yeah, all right bro, I remember when I saw that movie I just like I saw that scene and I was like how do I, how do I become that good with like from the hip stepping? Like how did he like what did he end up practicing in his life to be an expert hip shot? But he needs to like take that step forward to do it. You know what I mean? He watched a lot of Westerns.

2:11 Okay, yeah, all right. Which also leads me to a question I wonder about, because I was working on one today A gun or a Western, a thing for? a gun Fishing no. A line in the pond, which is the uh the battle belt, the ultimate thing to look cool is a kitted out battle belt. You know it's like. Is it? Well, if you watch a lot of youtube, you become you. If you watch a lot of gun tubers, you just become um, it gets into your psyche that this is what you have to do. To become a good shot. You have to have a bunch of trinkets on a belt that has a webbing or molly on it.

2:58 Yeah, you know I see a lot of that and uh, like I mean I'm off the gram, dude, I'm just not on the gram, so I don't see as much like of the zeitgeist gun culture you know, like this is in. I only see what I see on youtube and a lot of youtube stuff is pretty much like the zeitgeist on youtube is to just poop on whatever the most popular stuff is right or try to just pop the ego out of every image on social media right, and I think like brass facts and hop, hop, he just goes by. Hop now on youtube, but originally it used to be a hopalapa feel, I can't remember why.

3:38 Um, and then, like tfb tv and grantham and admin administrative results they usually like will put to test a lot of gear, yeah, and one that I've seen a lot of which has just made me decide not to buy a battle belt, is just the use case and practicality of a battle belt. And what I've concluded from my experience is like when I was in security armed security I was yeah, I was running battle belt. Uh, if I was in a, if I was in the armored truck, uh, I would. If I was in the back of the armored truck, I'd be running a like um, uh, what's it called Not a plate?

4:21 All I can think of is plate carrier, and I know this. I it called not a plate. All I can think of is play carry, and I know this. I have the other one too, um, the chest rig just running a plain chest rig, no, because the armor was, uh, like covert armor underneath my polo, and the chest rig was only allowed when I was in the armored truck, because I wasn't. You never get out of the armored truck when you're in the back, right um, and the driver stays in the armored truck. You have, you have the back right, um, and the driver stays in the armored truck. You have, you have one person who goes and gets the money and then knocks, you know, and deposits it and you stay inside the armored truck and keep it secure, right, um. But all I said, like, and then when I was a sheriff deputy, like had basically a battle belt, non-lethal battle belt most of the time because you're like in the jail and stuff um, all I said I really think a battle belt only makes sense in the context of, like, policing.

5:10 Like a dude, and I'm not talking about like the government should have it Right. But I'm talking like if you are in a situation where you're not a police officer and you're having to police, battle belt makes a lot of sense and so, therefore, more power to you. Um, if I'm in a situation where I'm policing, it's a bad day for a lot of people, probably for myself too. You know what I mean. Like I just can't. I'm trying to think of a scenario where you or I would have to clip on that belt and be like let's go police the shit out of this and have it on our belts ready to roll. Because the big thing they talk about, you know, and all these reviews and stuff of the battle belt is like it is. It's the same reason all cops look awkward and dorky and stumble and waddle.

5:55 It's cause you have this stuff on your hip and on your pelvis, yeah, and like your shirts won't tuck in properly, your jackets can't go over it or under it properly, and like it just sucks. And if you got to throw on a plate carrier or a chest carrier, like, then you're, it's going to get in the way of everything. Which is why, like if you see a lot of police departments now once they have an exterior chest rig going on, they move everything off their belt that they can Like radio gets moved up. Like radio gets moved up, taser gets moved up. Only thing on their belt is maybe sidearm and maybe a cuffs pouch. But most guys move the cuffs into the side pockets in the back of their vest and you know.

6:36 So you just move everything up because it's way better. So all I said. I don't want to rant or parade. Man, if you want a battle belt. I encourage you to do it, I know. Dean is in the market of developing battle belts. And first of all, welcome to the Mickey and Pat show, if you haven't figured it out yet. Also, a battle belt is basically you see your duty belts on cops and security guards. You do see the big thick belt with the gun and the. You know you got holster backup ar mag, you back up ar mag, you have mags for your uh pistol. You have usually a handcuff, maybe a tourniquet, maybe on the back you have a dump pouch for magazines if you're like a range setup or whatever.

7:23 But you know, basically the reason I have a battle belt is because I think they're cool and here's the deal, here's the deal. I think that also the um, I like, I do, I completely see, like the impracticality of them, like on a normal, like day-to-day basis. I think, like mine, the way I'm, the way my mindset is going towards, it is like all right, I'm rigging it up for like to have, just like on a range to, you know, convenience on range to have stuff and technically it's like the, the thought process being well, you, if you carry your gun concealed, then you should just train with it from that position, right, instead of having all your gear outside.

8:04 But at the same time, you know you can have, uh, gummy bears and extra mags and everything loaded up and in the pockets of your battle belt. But so you know, basically for ranges, and then also kind of like ever since I first saw the movie the patriot as a boy. He had his balls and caps and gunpowder on his belt as a young man? No, there was. There was a scene where his son Gabriel, is getting his son, gabriel's getting is getting taken off by the evil, evil British man and his other son, his younger son's just been shot in front of him and he's going to rescue Gabriel and he goes upstairs and he kicks this chest open and this chest at the foot of his bed has all of his old war fighting gear in it Tomahawks, muskets, whatever, just all the stuff that was, for the time, the most cutting edge modern gear in a chest in his house.

9:05 And so I'm like the part of me is like, ever since I saw that I was like I have to have my own war chest, just like, just ready, just sitting, sure, sure To never be seen, that's all. So it's like, so the if I'm ever going to use it, it's for the range. Strap it on, I mean, hopefully you know, right and then. but then it also just going to sit in the chest full of stuff that's ready for I don't know just wild things Uh, Carrington event. Hmm. Exactly, I feel it. Here's my thing too. Uh, also, hey, welcome to the show. Um, instead of saving this to the end, I'm just going to say it up front in case, cause I know we are bad about it and I bet our sponsors hate that we're bad about it, but, um, welcome to make a past show.

9:57 If you don't know, we're starting to get the ball rolling on things and getting more traction due to, you know, listeners and subscribers on youtube, so we got some sponsors. Um, check out our store so you can see uh products that we, you know, own ourselves and stand behind. Also, you may start seeing some links to primary arms. Yeah, so we're partnered with primary arms. Now, what's primary arms? Primary arms? They make primarily rifle optics, so they make your 1 to 8x variable powered scopes. They make your fixed magnification. Um, what are those called? Uh prism scopes?

10:39 And uh, they're, they're crushing the market right now. Uh, they offer three tiers of their product, essentially from. Like you know, there's not a trash tier with primary arms. I'm gonna be honest. I've seen their slx, glx and plx line. If you think of it, p is for platinum, g is for gold and s is for silver. They don't do a bronze one because they want to make good quality stuff, um, but yeah, check them out. They got great reviews. If you, you know, don't believe us, just look at, uh, some of the people who do primarily optic reviews on youtube where they let you look through the optic with a optic camera. You could really see the quality of glass between primary arms and some of the other competition which I'm not going to diss on, you know.

11:24 But all that said, I got a PLX C1-8X, bought it with my own money and then I saw, after I bought it, that uh, primary arms had a opportunity for like sponsorship, if you know you're the right fit for their brand, so reached out to them and here we are, so probably put a leak in there. Just, you know, I'm not gonna be saying buy all their scopes or jazz, but like I'm certainly gonna reference the one I use because I freaking love it. I put that PLXC 1-8X on my 308. It's a variable optic and it's more designed, you know, of course, for like a DMR close engagement to long range, and I was putting in like pretty good groups, like three-inch groups out at like 200 and 300 yards with it, which, you know, if you don't know, scopes 8X, it's not, you're not looking at the whites of their eyes.

12:16 If they're past a hundred yards, like even at a hundred yards, it can be kind of finicky depending on the size of your target, right, right and so, um, but really clear glass, the PLX Japanese glass, um, illuminated, uh, uh, reticle, and it has really awesome uh reticle markings, um, etched into the scope for, uh, pretty much quick, uh, adjustments for distance and wind. Uh, you know it's got measurements like, hey, if the width of the shoulders of the thing you're aiming at, I'm saying thing, uh, is this width, they're probably at 400 yards. If their head is this size, probably at 600 yards.

12:57 Uh, if they're covering the distance of this pick on the scope, they're probably walking, which puts them at a five mile an hour pace, which means you need a lead here and all that you learn by reading the manual of arms and then just looking in the scope and practicing. I'll tell you what it's pretty accurate, man, the 300 yards, you know we didn't shut out past 300 yards but using the etchings for, like, calculating 300 yards in my holds, just quickly on the fly, not doing like you know I'm not giving the wind or anything like that just doing quick fly math with the optic, it was pretty easy to do adjustments and stuff. So all I said, sponsorships, we got the store. Uh, if you'd like liquid death, some dude wipes, just get them through our link.

13:39 Man, we like those products too and, uh, we appreciate any support we get from you, all our kin out there. So, uh, with that said, plugged it now like we should um, and moving forward, um, the battle belt system. I was thinking this today, which I just thought it was funny. You said this because I was holding a baby. Oh yeah, not my baby, I don't have babies, but I was holding a baby and I just thought it would suck to try to carry a child if I was in a shit hit the fan situation and I had chest rig on with mags and all that. But let's say, worst case scenario, your daddy daycare for the day and you throw that you know baby carrier or what's.

14:25 The ones that are really cool looking, that women use, that are like just it looks like a scarf wrapped all around them and stuff yeah, yeah, it's called a ring sling, like like one brand is called ring sling sure, yeah it just looks. Yeah, it looks like you know holistic and it looks like it just really keeps that baby snug, uh-huh, um, but anyways, uh, I saw that and I was like, okay, I could actually see the use case of like, oh crap, I need to throw the baby on me so my hands are free and I can run and deal with obstacles, barricades, individuals, and in that situation I could see like I don't, I'm not throwing on my chest rig, dude, I've got to throw. I got to throw on battle belt and just tuck baby up with my arms and hold on to baby while I'm getting doors and moving things out of the way.

15:11 And I want to know wherever I get to once I can set baby down. I have some of my kid on me, so I can see that being like a use case for a battle belt at hand. That said, who knows, I'm not going to poop on anyone's parade if they like a battle belt and they want to run it. Whatever works for you works for you, man, just as long as you're not like one of those stands who is like look at all these freaking boomers with their chest carriers get with the times holsters. Yeah, also, I'm just not a big fan of posers right some people so people get a battle belt and they're like I'm a cop now. And I'm like why do you even want to be a cop, bro? Let me tell you, it's not that cool. Right, like better.

15:54 There's other things you could do and have more money to then larp, right, if you want to be like yeah, that's. The other reason I do have a battle belt is because someday I plan when my boys are in like late elementary, early middle school, we will get heavily into airsofting. Oh, yeah and yes I will. Then I will wear all the kit things to airsoft with a bunch of sixth graders and I will dominate them that's also the other thing, though, bro. Like I did airsofting a lot when I was in high school I say a lot we went like probably a good dozen times out to like professional games, um you know, and then otherwise we just did a bunch of like smaller games that didn't have nearly as kind of like the.

16:37 It was like a, it was free to come, there was a referee and like mission, but it wasn't like you know, people traveling in teams, right, and but the team one even though, like there's a lot of guys who didn't run chess rigs or insane kit, because your magazine holds 358 rounds, yeah, and like mid, mid capacity mags still 100, maybe 90, depending on like the firearm right or the airsoft gun, and so it was one of those things of like you just fill up your pockets, yeah, and like you're good, that's what you know? yeah, well, the guy who shreds people out there is the guy who's literally wearing safety glasses yeah, like world war ii trench coat, short like shorts, and muck boots.

17:21 For some reason, I don't know why he's wearing muck boots but it's just like shorts, muck boots and like bandana and glasses that's it and you're just like he's gonna kill all of us. He's smoking us dude. Um, anyways, I guess I did. Actually, I had one vest that had like two mag magazine holders and a holster for the pistol on it. It was like one of those cheapo amazon ones, right, I don't. I mean that's awesome for airsoft and we we would me and my buddies we had the full like this is also like we probably stopped airsofting in high school so much we were like late elementary school, like full whatever you could find at the army surplus store I mean we had canteens jangling, oh yeah, like world war ii style, helmet clinking around.

18:02 It was great dude. when I was, I had all my young marine gear still when I was in high school. Young marines was like a boy scout program for anyone who doesn't know about it, um, but yeah, I had had the canteen and the web belt that I used for it too. Dude, yeah, dude. So much fun. I look forward to those days. We'll just smoke both of our kiddos. Oh yeah, hide in the woods. Anyways, moving on, we got quite the assortment of topics for the show today. We've been gone for a little while, so we got a little bit of stuff to catch up on. But yeah, we have, you know, this idea of you know, is the world getting worse or crazier, or do we just hear more things that just are trying to, like you know, claw to get their own attention on the news?

18:50 And because everybody is a world-class reporter now at this point, meaning like if, in 1952, you had the ability to immediately send high-end photography, video and communication, audio and text instantly all around the world, you would have been the best reporter of all time, right and so, regardless of like your ability, and so now we live in this place where, yeah, is it is it. What is what is going? on. Now we live in a time where I actively shame people who are like putting videos on youtube of like trying to interview someone and I realize this person is not an interviewer or a journalist and the person they're interviewing is they're just actually harassing and it's just like.

19:35 It's not news, right, and it's just like like. I remember I saw this video the other day because it just came up in the shorts that I was scrolling and this guy is just like earlier today in something, something streets, an individual seen, you know, stealing a suitcase from someone and I'm like what, what is what? Where is this? What is this location? And I realized it was just like. I looked on the, I clicked on the dude's videos and it was just a guy who's just like trying to make news. Yeah, and like like, I don't know. It was weird, bro, but it wasn't like. I first was like is this a meme? Am I missing the joke? Yeah, like, it wasn't sarcastic fake news, it was just like.

20:16 He was just like and he was just going up and annoying people. Oh, yeah, he's like. We caught you doing that, sir. We're going to report, you're going to be on the evening news tonight and the guy's just like man get the punches. Dude are you kidding me so? And then the other thing too is like have you watched an episode of afv lately? not in a million, yeah no dude that in a long time. If you sit down and try to watch through an episode of that right now, it's not funny those videos are trash. Those are garbage. Trash videos where before I mean that was youtube, it was gold, afv was youtube back in, like the early 2000s like like the the. It was incredible to see. Yeah, like, how was it even possible to see that many dads get hit in the nuts by a T-ball ball?

20:59 Yeah, but it was like incredible that it had been recorded. Now it's like someone records the most. I saw a video today of a guy it was a drone shot of a guy in like the Caribbean jumping off of the mast of a crashed a shipwreck. He like ran off the mast and dove off of it and the drone followed him and then the drone went underwater with him and I just was like I just kept scrolling. It was worthless, yeah right, but like that would have been the most incredible like what am I? watching. Yeah, yeah, you know it's. And so now we just live in a time and place where, like, everything's been recorded, everything's happening. And so what witchcraft allows me to see through the eyes of a bird? Exactly?

21:39 Yeah, so in the first news, you know, and comparing it, you know, I'm sure back in like 1952, the year you just randomly picked, pulled out of my butt, I'm sure there were way more 15-year-olds being attacked by bears. But today we hear about it and it's in Arizona. Yes, tell me about it, pat. Okay, so a 15-year-old boy was attacked by a bear while watching television. Okay, now let me ask you this yes, Are we sure who reported this story? It is. Did the boy report the story? Is this what the boy told authorities? I know right. CBS News covered it. I saw the picture of the kid's face.

22:20 If it wasn't a bear, it was at least the dude got injured. All I'm saying, man, is I remember being a 15-year-old boy and watching TV and thinking I could choke out a bear oh yeah, A and thinking I could choke out a bear oh yeah, a black bear. I remember chasing black bears when I was 15, 16, you know exactly. So, anyways, this kid watching tv, he was in the family cabin. So now, okay, we're in a cabin. We're a little bit closer to the woods, right? It's more likely to be attacked by a bear in a cabin than if you're in. You know the suburbs of flagstaff, arizona you're out in the mountainous parts. You know a little bit in the cabin, but anyways. So this kid, he's a family cabin. He got attacked by a bear this last week and the bear came in and snuck up on him, swiped him in the head from behind, got his neck and ear and cheek on the first swipe and then the bear ran out of the house and then the bear turned around and came back in for more and got him like in the body.

23:17 Now I will say the boy lived. Um, I think he's. I mean, he's gonna be fine. Yeah, it was mostly just stitches okay, it wasn't like that one video. You remember that one video a while ago where the son on instagram he was hunting with his dad and he just showed the dead bear he shot and he turned the camera and his dad's face was hanging off. Like half his face is just like off. That effed me up. I was actually mad at our. I was mad at our boy Ricey. Rice-a-roni for setting that. Yeah, because he's no context and because he's desensitized completely to that stuff. I'm like Rice, rice, rice, serrani. You see people without faces all the time. Yeah, like that was a little much, because here's the worst part, not the worst part. It's good the dad was alive, he was just talking bro his face was flopping around.

24:01 I was like don't let that man talk right now, that is uncanny valley shit, yeah. And so here's uh, um, so the bear ended up, the the brother and the dad. Older brother and dad came in, scared the bear off, forgot his attention, got it out and the bear ended up. The bear is no longer alive. The bear has been executed Because that kid choked it out. I knew we could do it at 15. So here's what I'm going to get into now. I think the scariest part of this story besides being attacked by a bear all of a sudden is a horrifying event, because, while I do also believe I could choke out a bear, I can't yeah, and the sheer strength of those things is incredible. Yeah, like that bear might have been trying to play with him less than attacking him well, was it a male bear?

24:44 it was a male bear male bear, three-year-old black bear came in, but uh, so you ever have a dream where you ever have a dream? you just mean and when you're dreaming and you can fly, yeah, sorry, it's like that. You know what I'm talking about that video? Yes, I do. Okay, sorry, but I think this is common to a lot of people. In the dream, something is happening and you need to move quickly. You need to. Whatever Get across the street, you're fighting and you're punching. Whatever. Get across the street, you're trying to, you're fighting and you're punching like it feels like you're punching through cement. You know it's like sludge. Yes, and you're running and you just can't run and your body won't move quickly. All right, you know that horrible feeling you have during that dream, just not being able to.

25:25 Oh, my god, it's horrible feeling. Okay, this kid who was attacked has a neurological disability that allows him, that doesn't allow him, to move quickly. Oh, wow. So this kid, the second attack happened. You're like, well, why did you get attacked the second time? Well, he couldn't get away, he couldn't get out in time. So I mean, this kid lived the nightmare we've all had. It happened to him. He couldn't get away, he just couldn't move fast enough and I mean I just can't imagine what that was like. And I was reading the story and got to this part of the neurological disability piece and I was like you've got to be kidding me. That is like just a true living nightmare, right.

26:06 And so we've all I think we've all had that type of dream and this kid had to live it out. So the kid I think kid's going to be fine. The bear's not fine, but look out for bears when you're out there in the wilderness. Bro, do you know? Here's why I think I could beat a bear, a black bear. It's just because I grew up on these stories. Have you heard the story of Dale Peterson? See, dale Peterson Maybe, maybe, I don't know. He's just a dude who, like he, was like a wildlife uh, game and like game and preserve guy or scientist or some kind. But he was just up in wyoming doing some biological research stuff on the wildlife up there and uh, there's a bear stuffed now.

26:54 And it was the bear he killed with his own hands and teeth. Oh my god it was a grizzly bear oh my, it is only one of two in north american history verified to have been killed with not modern weaponry. And, uh, it was verified to like like he dragged the body into, like, uh, another fish and wildlife guy who was like you know, I gotta do an autopsy on this to make sure you didn't poach it. And you know, I wonder if he like said that while looking dale peterson in the face yeah, he's just clawed up, scratched up, got bear bites on him. He's got still grizzly fur in his teeth. You know what I mean? This is like I gotta make sure you didn't poach this thing. He's like okay, go ahead, bud, gotta go buy the books on this one.

27:36 But then, uh, there was like back in what was it like? 2014, 2015 maybe? Uh, there was like a shepherd from some country out. I gotta look it up. Um, it was a bosnian shepherd that strangled a brown bear, like he just was on its back and put it in a headlock and choked it out. Hey, that's legit. Oh, that's King David stuff. Yeah, yeah, dude. But I will say I can't do that. Like you said, I ain't got that, I ain't got that kind of, I ain't got that dog in me man. But that was Like you said, I ain't got that, I ain't got that kind of, I ain't got that dog in me, man. But that was only two recorded. There's only been two recorded in North America.

28:17 So, hey, you got to at least try. You got to go out fighting or not, depending on the. You know you either got to go full fetal position or fight it out. After watching the Revenantant dude, I don't think I could like go fetal. Yeah, I think like the revenant just made it it was so brutal being the way just yanked him around. No matter what it's like, I'm not done with you yet. Yeah, um raped by a bear. It wasn't rape, that looked like it. I don't think it did I just watched it the other night, like the other week, and I was like whoever said this looks like a bear raping over there. It really didn't. It was some, just first person. I was going to say it looked like it was.

28:58 The thing that messed me up was, when it shows it swipe his neck. Oh yeah, you know, and he had to cauterize his neck, oh yeah. Anyways, nature. Nature bro. Wild and another thing that happened this week was it happened just this past weekend, Memorial Day weekend Tornadoes coming through Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas, I think. No. Yeah, you're kidding. Yeah, I know right, Tornadoes in Tornado. Valley, exactly, yeah, so known as this is where tornadoes happen, but this there's been 23 reported people passed away from it, over 100 wounded. There was one gas station that went down.

29:39 They said 80 people were trapped in the gas station Because, you know, have you ever been in a kind of tornado? situation, oh If it was a Buc-ee's, it would have been like 80,000 people trapped in a Buc-ee's. But so when a tornado happens in this part of the world and I've seen tornadoes in this part of the world I've been driving when they've been going by. You know, when I was little in Texas, we'd have to go barricade. We'd get ready Bathroom in the bathtub, Mattress over the basement Yep Mattress in the bathtub type thing and I remember hiding in the basement a couple of times growing up as a kid, because of the tornadoes that were real close and cause.

30:19 If it does hit where you are, it's serious, and so usually people are pulling off under a gas station, even just to protect your car from rain and stuff. And so, anyways, gas station collapsed in Texas and a bunch of people stuck underneath there. I think they got them all out of there, but it was over 200 homes destroyed in just Texas. I didn't see the stats on the other states too, but lots of people out of home, lots of people lost their life, and you kind of just never know when these things are going to happen, or like you can only be so ready for them also. Yeah, you know, I mean a tornado is just like A tornado is one of those things that you know.

31:00 It's like there's straight up myths surrounding tornadoes, you know, I mean like pecos bill, yeah, and like, or like. You just think, like, think back to like, um, you know, like some of like the earliest civilization stories like I'm talking like back in the greek days, like dude, there's there's stories about tornadoes and like roman greek culture, you know, and we don't really think of tornadoes being something over there in that part of the world. We think about it way more out here in the West, but like Native Americans had paintings and folklore and stories about like tornadoes and like what's the other thing that gets a lot of that? Maybe volcanoes, but there's not really other weather events that like are.

31:40 So, you know, mystified and tornadoes scare the piss out of me, bro, especially like when you see them. It's one of those things of like. Have you seen, have you ever been near one or seen one like formate? form forming. I have the close I've. I've seen one. I've seen them far, far off. Yeah, one time I was driving down, uh, driving down the highway in texas, uh, coming back to color, and it's crazy. The sky turns green. Yeah, it really does turn green and a tornado started to form but didn't, as the sky turned green and it's raining like crazy. And just about 200, 300 yards off the highway, the clouds two clouds converged and started spinning and coming down, so like like it was really.

32:28 It was like the widest part of the tornado at the top had started. It like started to turn and it made like it made like three or four revolutions and I was like, oh, it's gonna happen, but it never fully kicked in and touched down and turned into a tornado. But the magnitude of watching two clouds converge and then spin and turn down was like we got to get out of here. Yeah, dude, same thing. I was at my church growing up as a kid on a Saturday and I remember we had just done something like we were playing like flag football or something like that all hanging out. We had just done something like playing, like we were playing like flag football or something like that, all hanging out, and my grandfather was coming to pick us up and the storms were coming in and I just saw we all saw them meet and it was like just over the hill of our church we could see it come in and touch it down.

33:18 It was like one of those things of like the angle of it was so close that we could you didn't see it as like a two-dimensional silhouette of a tornado on the horizon, like I could see it coming down at us. You know, like I could see like all around the tornado and see the full spiral. And I remember we were just standing there and like okay, do we even bother trying to get in the truck and outrun this, or do we just go back inside and like get in the like concrete cell, like basement of the church? And it was one of those things that was just unreal. Again, yeah, like you said, the crazy sickly like bluish green sky, um. And then, uh, billy, gina and I we were driving to a housewarming party or something like that recently I think it was just the spring, if I remember correctly and we saw a tornado touch down in a cornfield oh wow, tear it up.

34:07 And we saw some storm chasers turn off to chase it. Oh yeah, but it wasn't a big one, it just pulled off. But it was one of the things where I saw and I know Billy Jean was like oh my god, like what are we gonna do? And I gonna do and I was like we're not, we don't have to worry about that one you know, because it was a pretty skinny one, more like a dirt devil. Yeah, I mean it was. It was like it was big and it went up into the sky. It was fully connected, oh yeah, but it wasn't but it wasn't like the one that's picking up my car. You know what I mean. It was the one that's like you don't want to be outside near it because it'll pick you up and take you away. But if you're in your house or in your car you're fine, right, um, but it was cool, it was crazy cool. She's like I didn't know they were here. I was like there's more here than there are in most other parts of the world.

34:50 So, um, but yeah, that's pretty sad, dude. I saw like the storm, like death toll and all that stuff and that was pretty crazy. But it is one of those things of like kind of comes with the territory out there in like tornado valley. You know, it's like the same thing when you know. You know, I'm not saying you should be not caring or not empathetic, but it is one of those things of like people been living there a long time, they kind of know what to expect and like the seasonality stuff it occurs and it's like the same thing of a hurricane in florida yeah or like building your house on the side of a hill in california. It's like right, mudslides happen, man. Or you know out here where we're at building your house in the mountains, like there's not mudslides but there's fires, and you know that's what you accept when you build your house here.

35:34 So and the main thing is, people just don't think about it. You don't have a bigger view of history and what's happened or that storms can happen and how those things can, even if it's, there's two year cycles, five year cycles, there's 100 year cycles, 500 year cycles on storms and when they come and how they happen and sometimes they can be devastating. Speaking of which we just had a little cycle here recently, the uh a cme event, uh, coronal mass ejection, which is the term to describe the ejection of the particles from the sun that are ejected out of solar flares, essentially from the sun, and sent hurtling through space.

36:17 And those I just said the word. Why did I forget those? I just said the word. Why did I forget the word? Yeah, I just said it. Man, I'm on guys. This is the real news for the Make it Bad Show. I have dementia. The particles, Particles there we go yeah, particles, but the particles they maintain a charge and concentrate enough they can actually peel through. And I say peel because when you see an image of like there is magnetic field, it's kind of like the magnetic field is being peeled away a little bit by these and just sustains itself because it's not strong enough.

36:59 But if a coronal mass ejection is powerful enough, it peels through our magnetosphere and can, like, literally do quite a bit of damage. And, uh, one of the side effects every time there's a solar flare that we get hit by is aurora, borealis, and I say borealis because I think borealis is regional. So northern lights, yeah, but like there's aurora, there's auroras that you can see outside of the Borealis or the region of it. But anyways, that's an effect, you see. And recently, just a couple weeks ago, we had a huge one that went so far south. I think some people said they saw Northern Lights as far south as like northern Alabama, which is like that's not where you want to be seeing the northern lights, that's not alaska, yeah, like, if it's, if it's getting down that far, bud, that's a big solar flare.

37:52 Um and uh, a lot of people might have seen movies like geostorm or gosh, I don't know what other solar flare movies. There's a couple of them that essentially say, like you know, if a CME is powerful enough, it actually works like an EMP and it could take our grid offline and it will disrupt our power supply, internet, phone lines, it will shut down satellites, and so, all of that said, I kind of want to talk about the one that started it all and what is, you know, predicted to occur again in the next decade or so, and we'll see how accurate that is Right. But the Carrington event.

38:33 And the Carrington event is kind of like the big one that in recorded history, got us paying attention to this stuff. So, when you think about it, there's one of those things like there's so many events that have happened to Earth right over the span of humanity's existence, but we really don't know about those things if they haven't occurred during recorded history. Right, and this was one of those things of like, yeah, we were, we started studying and knowing, of course, way before this event occurred, like what solar flares are, and you know, because of we've seen the roar borealis, sometimes nightly in some countries.

39:13 Um, but what year was this? It was 1859, uh. The carrington event, uh, and it was the first like massive geomagnetic storm on a record that like, really, as mankind, made us start paying attention and like wanting to study, be like what the old, this can happen. So it occurred the first and the second of September in 1859. And it was an event that essentially was the result of the coronal mass ejection colliding with earth's magnetosphere. That caused a complete and like absolute shutdown of most electronics we had at the time.

39:54 It's like the telegraph system that we had globally went silent and like the world was just shut down in communication and what we had established at the time, um, and there's been a lot of predictions of like just exactly how, uh, devastating this could be nowadays, and a lot of people, because of how reliant we are on an electrical grid and how not insulated it is from a CME of this magnitude, a lot of people are like you know, if this occurred, it would result in, you know, damages in the US alone somewhere between $600 billion and $2.6 trillion.

40:39 Wow, no more iPhones. Yeah, no kidding. Wow, no more iphones. Yeah, don't get it. Which is just, like you know, one of those things. That's just like the us can't afford that and like to rebuild off of that in a in any reasonable time period, um, let alone globally, um, and so it's one of those things that a lot of people are pretty like kind of scratching their head as, like it happens so infrequently on this kind of scale it's hard to tell how many times it's occurred historically, um, but cmes, you know, happen, probably like a big one, one that we just saw, like this last week with, you know, aurora borealis effects, so far south um, they occur like once every two years on average um, and the most we kind of have from those lingering effects is like radio static, right or something like that, during the event, um, and to put it into scale, uh, the way these things are measured, they're on a scale that measures the A index and the K index, from what I understand, and the A index only goes up to 5 and anything past A5 is like a magnitude, earthquake, magnitude, right, like I don't know.

41:58 Well, maybe that's not correct, I don't think. Or hurricanes hurricanes are a good example. There's no cat above cat 5 hurricane. Well, maybe that's not correct, right, I don't think. Or hurricanes Hurricane's a good example. There's no above cat five, hurricane, right, because cat five is just like once you reach cat five, there's no top of the scale, and so the one that we just had was A5 CME. So that and the Carrington event are both A5, but on the K index, the one that we just experienced was a K5. The Carrington event was both a five, but on the K index, the one that we just experienced was a K five. The Carrington event was a K 70 to 72. Wow, so it's like one of those things that's, there's a lot of room for the measurement and stuff. But uh, yeah, it's pretty crazy, man, and a lot of people say we were actually lucky with the CME we just experienced not being more severe.

42:41 It was apparently like in the prepper community a lot of people like preparing for the worst, like started, you know, getting their go bags ready, putting things in Faraday cages, and we're like all right, like if it happens, it happens, you know. So all I said, uh, the quarantine event pretty sick thing. You should check it out. Um, check it out, you know, and learn about geomantic kinetic storms. They're pretty crazy. And if you really find yourself interested about it, I suggest checking out a highly recommended book by me. It's called One Second After and it's about you know if the grid went down from an EMP. You know what would happen one second after one minute, one day, one year. Um, and it is such a good book and kind of postulating the worst case scenario that, uh, I think it was, I think it was the department of interior or department of defense.

43:30 I had the author work with the team to help the U? S try to develop a plan of like how to get back on, uh, in working order if this event happened. But worst case scenario projection 90 of people in the us dead in a year from a cme because of the grid going offline. Wow, no food, no clean water, no medical emergency supplies, systems down, pretty much fried, most cars right. So yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty bonkers, but it's a great book, uh, and yeah, check it out, check out the carrying tidbit. I think there was a pretty decent documentary on the history channel too that went into just everything that got affected by it wow the uh and the for, because we don't even think about too like lots of times, like your water comes from it's got power behind it, electricity power that's pushing that pump, like and like and like there are yeah, there's pressurized things and like there's water towers and stuff like, even like just stuff that there's, like we are so dependent upon it now, like the uh there is.

44:34 Uh, it's immeasurable how much how reliant we are on on all these things for just everyday creature comforts as well as, sir, things we survive off of. So that would be interesting to see, and might be one hell of a Aurora Borealis coming through. I feel like it'd be so bright that it'd wake you up and you wouldn't even be able to take a picture of it. No, because your camera's gonna be fried. So, if it happens, take a good mental picture. Yeah, get out some chalk, start writing on the side of a cave. Yeah, Some people who I don't know, if you could say, an expert, but some people who study CMEs and try to determine the occurrence of the big ones, say that we got a 12% chance in the next 10 years or so.

45:20 That was like a C Peter Reilly or Peter Reilly, I believe who's a physicist who said that Now. Granted, he said that in 2014. Yeah, so I guess that might have been the one you know he might be like. Yeah, it was kind of close. Right, and if you're like it's a 12% chance, it's like, well, it's probably not going to happen, but if it it does, it could be wild yeah, for real. And so there's a there's things going on in the, the heavens above and the stars that, can, you know, bring down the world, uh, and also there's just mankind being being we got the job done ourselves, being being men down here.

46:01 yeah, working on it sometimes it feels like we're only doom and gloom man. But, truth be told, because of, like modern day media, like you know, like we're talking about today, like most of the stuff that's just shocking and like honestly makes me pause, this doomy stuff, right, and uh, this one, this one really harshed my vibes pretty bad, like for the week. Like this one I thought about a ton um and it's darwin's war. Uh, darwin is a drone pilot in ukraine. He's like 20 something, 20, no, he's. I think he's older than 20. I think he said he would have been in this third year of his med school undergrad. He's like early 20s though. Yeah, yeah, yeah young guy, um darwin, uh can be seen in darwin's awards video on youtube.

46:48 And to shout out to scripps news never heard of scripps news, but apparently you can. They're a news channel you can get on your antenna on your tv, I guess, and that reporter's hanging it out there. Dude, that reporter was. He's not on the ground, he's not asking people about suitcase theft? yeah, you know this, this dude's a real deal that guy legit like also scripps news, to their credit, did not censor shit. They showed darwin taking names, yeah, with his drone feeds um. This is over in ukraine yeah, yeah, yeah, this is in ukraine. Uh, the journalist was jason bellini for scripps news, um, but, yeah, so, darwin, he was in this non-disclosed bunker walking, uh, the journalist jason bellini, through everything and, uh, you know, he just got into, like you know what he would be doing currently if he wasn't in the war.

47:37 Uh, you know what life would be like. But then he started going through like their gear and kit and how they're you know electrical taping these mortars to these drones that they're just pov flying. And darwin has this, you know cyberpunk led two led screens on his eyes that are connected and plugged into a computer and battery where I think there's a second drone, usually that another pilot is piloting. That is like a third, like a, it's like a overwatch pov. Yeah, so he can help direct darwin. And that guy is looking at computer screens and checking and like giving directions to darwin, while darwin's like, yeah, I got him, I could see him, you know, moving, and like they're in just this non-disclosed bunker with decorations all around.

48:23 Darwin's got you know what was it his ear, wings, earrings, I can't remember he has a dangly earring and his his earring, but it was drone propellers. Yeah, were his dangly ear. He had a dangly drone propeller earring while he was sucking on a vape dude, yeah, and just blowing clouds. And then just sitting in his recliner flying ieds into tanks, like literally footage of dudes running from him, yeah, and he's just smoking them and like I'm not saying it's like comedically, I think I'm just like, I think I might have this inflection in my voice of just still shock and like watching you just now, watch the video, you know, before we were recording, seeing your reaction, bro, like just cemented it for me even more, because it's it's so dystopian to see this dude.

49:10 You know he's got no real emotions, he's pretty robotic and he's just resigned to the fact that, like, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm doing today. I'm waking up, laying back in this chair, throwing these you know, vr goggles on, not vr, ar goggles on and flying this drone and looking to kill. And it's bonkers, bro, it's insane and like it's just, it's like the almost like the crazy thing of, like the I don't know why, but the freaking vape mod, yeah, being there just like really like all of a sudden rips you out of like the feeling, like, oh, this is far removed. For me it's like the vape mod, the super high tech setup Like how do we know?

49:53 This guy's just not freaking like chilling in a basement next to a McDonald's in New. York. You know what I mean. And it just really made all of your securities feel like they evaporated. You know what I mean? Yeah, and it just really made all of your securities feel like they evaporated. You know what I mean? Like, oh, okay, at any moment someone could do this stuff? Yeah, because he was flying these. It's a small drone, I mean, it's the size of a football. Yeah, the DGI Phantom was. And that thing is, he's flying it through windows, through open tank hatches, so accurate Into sewage, like the canal, like drainage um he's just flying into those tubes and detonating and the. the other thing too is like the spot where they're filming at it really did look like a dystopian world or like cyberpunk matrix, like the scenes in the matrix where they're outside of the, the matrix and they're just in this colorless world and kind of just, uh, you know, earth tone, color clothes just destroyed by war.

50:47 Yeah, just yeah, with with very little means, like you're eating the, like you're eating sludge. But you're also able to connect to super high technology things and like take life with it. It was a. It's a different landscape. It so strange and like I. Uh, if any of you played cyberpunk, there's these guys in cyberpunk, part of the maelstrom gang, and I just look at that and look at what these guys look like and like. I think the vaping also made me think of it, because you know, everyone in like this game is wearing futuristic tech, augmenting their abilities and flying drones, and they're also doing like. They're just vaping. They're like do or smoking, weed or drinking, right, and it was just something about it like it.

51:31 Just I was like, oh, we're here now, like we're here, like it's not gonna be that long before you can just have those lenses installed in your freaking face, right, and you can just open a lens and see the pov of a drone, like at the drop of a whim. Right and it was. It was just, it was just insane, dude. Like war has evolved, it will. There is no going back without any mp. You know what I mean. Right like it is. So it's just. It's pretty bonkers to me. Um, I don't know any thoughts on that before I move on to the side. Tangent for that no, it's, it's just. It's so weird to have this extreme technology, something where like, if you had the ability to have something like this drone and like the revolutionary war, much less even like world war ii even like to just have live video feed overwatch of a drone zip it into the bunkers on d-day and then roll in yeah, like, just like that sort of thing.

52:23 And at the same time, ukraine is just a wasteland. Right now, everything's bombed out and jacked up and displaced. Dude, when someone I had a couple of buddies who were in the Army Reserves and they got activated to send to other locations. While they sent, had other people move from those locations to be on standby for ukraine, and a lot of those guys were just talking about how, like when they got activated and we're getting ready to do training stuff in case we went to a european theater, they're like it's gonna be ukrainistan, like this is just gonna be ukrainistan, like the same thing that happened to iran or afghan, the.

53:05 What was it? 70s or 80s? We heard about the fall of Tehran, like we just saw the next fall of Tehran, and it was the fall of, you know, pick a place in Ukraine, right, and like it was. It's like. It'll never be the same again, dude. It'll be small cell conflict for a long time. Yeah. Which I was like I don't know man, it's pretty dark and bleak. And then now, here we are, a year later. I'm like I don't know man. No-transcript I see it just being drawn out from, you know, occupation and resistance? No, definitely. Hopefully we don't have the. We don't make the same mistakes. Yeah, and there's. You know there's kind of no rules in war, but there are also rules in war. There are rules in war, which is interesting For only the.

53:48 There's only rules for the people who are winning a lot, right. Yeah, it's just it's. It's yeah, the in a lot right. Yeah, it's just it's it's yeah, the people who lose don't have to follow the rules exactly. And so like, uh, I don't know it's like, will there be? Uh, will they put there would be some convention about, you know, drones or whatever. I imagine I wouldn't be surprised if like the geneva convention started being like you can use drones, they just can't have weapons on them. And then the military's gonna be like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We've been using predator drones for a long time. Like why, why do we have, why can't we put bombs on the small drones? Now you know what I mean. Oh yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if, like, some kind of talk come out about that soon. No one talks about it because no, you know, the truth is no one who's making up the rules of the geneva convention is afraid of a Predator drone missile landing in the Geneva Convention, right, but the moment some terror attacks get done with some drones on some high-profile areas, it's going to be like wait a second.

54:49 you know, I'd say that's. The other scary thing about this too is like for basically I don't know, 500 bucks, 500 to $1,500. Yeah. You could be rigged up to. Do some major hurt To just Some precise yes. Very precise action, like even here, like right now, if that was our, if we were right now, we were like, okay, here in our town we're going to go buy what we need with 1500 to be able to like target something like this. You just, anybody can do it. And so then it's like, uh, put that, put that over the fact that we also have, like however many million people coming into the country undocumented, um, then it's like you could have, you could see where, very quickly, an argument could be made for the amount of there could be insurgency in America already, and all they need is a couple of things from Best Buy to get it done.

55:45 Yeah, it's one. I'm like I'm legit waiting and for the first time, when someone has a drone enter through their chimney Right, has a drone enter through their chimney Right, and it's like someone you pop in, a celebrity or a senator or something like that, who spoke against like a certain culture, right, and it's just like I hope it doesn't happen, right, but that's what I'm afraid of, like, that's what I'm afraid of occurring. And then everyone's like terrified, like all the money, seal your chimneys up. Bar your windows Post 9-11,11. You know it's like the. The main thing was all right. You know, especially into the 80s too, like hijackings and stuff, it was like all right, get through a airport security and get on a plane. Yep, now you don't have to, you don't?

56:27 You know who cares about tsa security? Who cares about like that's really like you don't have to go to flight simulator school, you can hold an xbox remote and and do those things. So it's, it's accessible in that those ways and so, um, we haven't seen it come to anywhere near us yet, but people are thinking about it, people know that it's possible, oh yeah um, on that note, though, too, was like the rules, the conventions, not the actor, danny McBride, former attorney David McBride, who you might not know. You're like, who the heck is this guy? Well, he was an attorney in Australian Armed Services. He was a prosecution attorney, and he recently started blowing the whistle on Australian Armed Services war crimes during their time in Afghanistan, specifically the attacking and execution of unarmed civilians.

57:24 And I started looking into it just because there's a couple Australian content creators on YouTube that, like I very passively kind of follow, just because one of them his name is, uh Jordy's, and he was, uh he was speaking out against a politician in his local area, um, and he was making YouTube videos about it, and then his house got fire, bombed and, like mob style, lit on fire and the police didn't do an investigation and stuff, and it was pretty much like it seemed like they tried to kill him and burn his house down, and he made a whole video about it as well, wow, and he's trying to get an investigation and, like the whole public opinion is with him in support of him to like try to put pressure on the police.

58:07 Um, it's pretty insane, but he was friends with david mcbride and helped do the like kind of breakdown of David being sent to six years in prison for crimes against the state and he'll be eligible for parole in 27 months. But you know McBride sees it as like he was actually doing his duty to reveal these war crimes because he's like. You know, if the only difference is, right now I'm not in the military anymore, I'm not in the armed services, and you know, if I was in the armed services we'd be bringing charges on these people and we'd be trying to prosecute it and handle it eternally in the military, and when I did do that, no one did anything about it.

58:53 So I'm speaking out about it now. Right, and they just jailed him on what Did it say specifically? What grounds they jailed him on for, like, divulging, like a country's secrets? Yeah, let me scroll through here again just to get the exact charges listed. You go ahead, give me your thoughts. Australia is not a free country. Australia is a nanny state. I think that, like you know, we consider it a like just because somewhere in our mind we think of Australia as being, you know, kind of like America or whatever, and like they have all these things like really like their government's not set up the same way as ours and over the years they've also given up a lot of freedoms, and so, like there's a australia is a big time nanny state and you don't have a lot of freedoms, and so also like you're gonna be, and also you know, here's the deal if you're, if you whistle, blow on certain things in america too, they're gonna put you in jail as well.

59:51 But I would just like I'm not surprised to see australia doing this to like no dude australia to do this you remember during covid, when they were using the facebook groups talking about protesting and they were just breaking and arresting people, breaking in their homes, arresting them, confiscating their computer on suspicion of protest right, suspicion of gathering? Dude, australia is a clear sign to me that this is what you get when you curtail and bow down to the government and turn your firearms in. The government has no fear of you expressing your rights to gather and speak freely and protest the government's actions and all right. So I can't see actually in this article the specific charges they brought up.

1:00:34 I think one is the smuggling of state sensitive material, because he all this like came on two tours and one of them was even in an attachment with special forces in Australia and he felt like lines had been crossed, started gathering files. He submitted the files to an ABC journalist. Which ABC is? The Australian Broadcast. What's C stand for?

1:01:14 Broadcasting channel. I think Probably the C word. They like to use the C word over there. Can't say that, but yeah, so he said it, in that the journalist that he sent it to was a Dan Oaks, and Dan Oaks found they contained evidence that Australian force had committed war crimes and uh, helped, lied, he lied to help conceal them. Uh, for um, david McBride, um, and that there were, like it was essentially like there was unlawful killings, there was scapegoating for soldiers, um, and there was even like soldiers that got given awards in private to make it look like they acted uh, in you know justification, like oh you, you did something very brave and noble.

1:02:04 Here's an award, right, um? And so all that said, uh, they built up a case against um, police started building a case against, uh, mr dan, mr Dan Oaks, the ABC journalist, and his producer, sam Clark. In 2019, they raided the ABC Sydney headquarters and seized the documents, um, and I think that is how it got revealed, if I understand correctly, that McBride was the person who was providing the documents to ABC and the journalists. You know, he was revealed to be their source and that's how they got like two McBride dissents and charge him. So it's pretty crazy, totally not a free state.

1:02:44 But you know what Same thing could be said about some whistleblowers here in the US. Now I have to be sensitive about it because of the line of work I do and even though we use aliases here, I don't want to necessarily say anything too crazy. But there are certainly things that individuals have revealed and leaked about the U? S's actions that I'm, uh, not necessarily opposed to that information being available, right, uh and that is my way of saying right to maintain anonymity and keep my, keep my uh friends and family safe right and then on the flip side of the coin, there it's hard because we don't rules in war, and it is hard like like a big reason why I would like at the moment I'd I'd never pursue a job in law enforcement or in the military is because you're not protected to have to do like now.

1:03:38 Here's the thing like um, for some reason too, it's when it comes to war crimes, things like that. It's never like. It's never the generals, it's never the politicians, never the leaders who are getting locked up for the stuff. It's never the chief of police. Yeah, it's the guy on the ground who had to make the life or death decision in the moment in a horrible situation. And now, yes, there are horrible things happen. People make the wrong call, people are unjustified in their actions, especially in law enforcement. It's an easier line to draw on if something was justified or not and looking at things and even still it's murky. But just to be like, you know, you're putting these situations like of a.

1:04:19 If you spend all day, every day, going to respond to calls of somebody else's worst day of their life, you are at risk for making a bad call at work that day and that bad call resulting in the death or injury of somebody and then resulting in, like legal prosecution for yourself, same thing with, and then you put in the context of warfare and in warfare chaos, man, it's chaos hell and chaos. And if you have these completely undefined ultimate goals and missions of the war and you're going to keep something going for two decades and you don't have the stomach to to actually wage a war, like you know, uh, in total warfare, total annihilation is a gross and bad thing, but the same time, if you've decided it's worth warring, you need to keep taking the steps forward to complete the mission.

1:05:08 You have a clear, defined end goal and to reach that end goal sometimes it is, like you know, like in a World War II instance, like we didn't have deployments, you went over there until it was done. We did bomb entire cities. You know B-52s flying wing to wing carpet, bombing out entire cities, and I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, saying that's the right thing to do, but what I'm saying is, in the context of war, it's like, um, you gotta I think in war you gotta do the wrong thing to finish it off in some cases. And this obviously this is warrants like a much bigger conversation because of like the nuances of it. But I'm just saying war is evil and gross and if you're doing war, like you may, you may have to like do war, yeah, or don't do it.

1:05:54 You know, and that's all you know and like, and so it's a especially if you're, if you're you should. at the end of the day, you should try to do everything you can to not do war. You should avoid war at all costs because and that, yeah, there's the expression no one wins in war. But truth is there's almost always a victor and a defeated, and, like, the victor is going to have to do some insanely nasty things and likely the defeated is going to get desperate enough to do some insanely nasty things and I'll be honest, I don't ever want to do any of those things. Right and and especially a clear there's certain types of warfare that are also easier to understand and, uh, move forward with meaning like I think the easiest one to like, get your head wrapped around and how you conduct it is a war of defending your nation, like, like defending from invaders okay that's a pretty clear, cut and dry, like you know thing.

1:06:52 Um, the next I think thing is war of conquest, right or wrong. It's easy to define the lines of we're coming to conquer you, take you over, subject you to our ruling. We took your land, we took your stuff, we took your people, like that, like the. That's a clear line. But then we get into the wars we've been in now, where proxy warring and or wars of ideology are a very difficult thing to conduct Wars of resource, right, exactly, and so, and even, and then and like, let's say like if the whole thing was just about oil in the Middle East. It's like then you just then, then you go war of conquest and like full conquest and and that's going to cost a lot of innocent people their lives, and like full conquest and and that's going to cost a lot of innocent people their lives.

1:07:36 But then, like now in the thing we're in now of these war of ideologies and proxy warring, you end up with um, no clear, defined end goal, with like hyper clear defined, like rules of engagement, kind of your hands may be tied and it's confusing there, and so, um, the it just is a it's a bad way to conduct war and and you know, in my mind and so, and it's a, it's a not a clear way to have a end goal. And so I think, starting even in really starting, even in korea, that's basically the wars we've had for the most part yeah, it's these, you know, and uh, yeah, it gets confused and that's even like the, it just turns into an unwinnable, you know war.

1:08:19 Yeah, in that sense yeah, no, I agree. Like I don't think we'll ever look back and think we really won the. I don't think we'll ever look back and think anyone won the Cold War, like from a civilian citizen perspective, like I don't look at it and be like yeah, us won. Look at it and be like I guess no one has been annihilated yet, right, you know, and that's a good thing. And I look at, like, the war on drugs, the war on terror, doesn't look like we won anything there yet. Maybe we got some bad dudes, and that's awesome. Maybe we thwarted or stopped some bad dudes, and that's awesome. Maybe we thwarted or stopped some bad things and that's awesome. But war as a whole I'm not.

1:09:00 Look at the pullout in Afghanistan that's no victory, right? Every time some kind of weapons deal with the cartel gets traced back to ATF or drug deal gets traced back to the DEA, that's not a win, dude. Yeah, well, like that's a big flipping L if our government is somehow thinking they're going to win the war by giving the cartel the guns and the drugs you know Right so it's one of those things that I'm just like yeah, I mean I agree with you Like there's no way to really look at this and see this as like traditional warfare Especially, you know, know, and then the other, another part of it too, being that, like we were talking about you know rules of war, when your enemies don't have those rules too, it does put you in a very, uh, paralyzed position.

1:09:46 For instance, like you know, this is this could be kind of a contrast thing to say, but like nobody has the stomach to say like that what's going on in the middle east over this time is essentially a holy war. Take god out of it. But one side has a big, big part of god going on in it being, like you know, extremist muslims, right, and there are peaceful muslims, I know peaceful muslims. But also nobody will say and just outright say, like we're warring against islam, right. Like you always have to say, like we're warring against Islam, right. Like you always have to say, like Islamist or radicals, like this like thing, right, and so like, anyways, like those groups don't have, um, the those, those, those guys don't play by the rules. And then also like on the other front, where you'd say, like our other, like peer enemies, like China and or Russia, like China who's fueling the drug war and the cartel wars, like they're not going to, they're not playing by rules and sanctions.

1:10:41 No. You know they're, they're going to do their own thing, and so the it puts people who value human life, who value like trying to do it the right way, in a paralyzed position where they can't, you know, operate or move forward, because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah, yeah, I'll be honest, I don't have anything to add to that. I agree, I mean, I just agree, right, and it's sad and unfortunately, a lot of the casualties from that war are also, like you know, our troops or maybe our allies' troop in the case of Australia uh, getting worn down and breaking in their morality and making bad calls or being content with doing bad things.

1:11:24 Right, and you know as sad as it is. Like you know, I'm a Patriot, I love America and I'm proud, you know, of our nation and the people who serve Um, but I've met a lot of bad people who served A lot of bad dudes. And I've known dudes who served who would say the military is not a moral institution. Just like any institution, if it is left out long enough in the elements, it will erode to something barbaric especially one that's not you know, it is a in its essence, you know, only necessary, yeah, not moral. Yeah, so well. Anyways, on that note, thanks for joining us, ken.

1:12:06 Um, I do uh want to encourage everyone to take a take a read of, uh, the description here on the episode. Check out our links. We'll have our Audible link, as usual, our Attorneys for Retainer link and a website link. So check out the webpage and all that. I'm currently 13, 14 hours deep on east of Eden right now. Um, and I'm loving it and I I see that it would pair well like a steak and wine. It would pair well with blood meridian. You know, get blood meridian. Listen to that first. Be like, wow, that was rough and just immediately go into east of eden and you'll be like it's crazy east of eden is like a full manifestation of the parables of the judge and the epilogue of um blood meridian.

1:13:04 So, anyways, it's great, though narrated by the same guy, richard poe, it's awesome. It goes together like a liver and a nice Chianti, you know. Is that a Hannibal reference? Yeah, yeah. That is crazy. Yeah, anyways, pat any sign off. Oh, just till next time.