Speaker 1: 0:53

So one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard at the range, pat, was that there was this guy talking to me and a couple other people. None of us had come to the range together. I was there simply using the zero wind 100 yard range for zeroing a rifle scope. And I was listening as these guys are talking about red dots, because a bunch of them were talking about which favorite red dot they had and what one they were thinking about buying. And this range guru, right, not the actual range master there to oversee safety, but Sensei brought his dessert eagle. He's like Mealtime six, right, and he's explained all of us how the best one, the best red dot, is. I don't remember what it was now, right, I think it was probably a Trigicon red dot, right, and he's like and the reason is because it has the best sight picture and clearest dot with a low level light setting when I'm wearing nods. And he's like, like, if I have to use my handgun, I want to be able to see it when I got my nods on and then my head, I'm just like so this guy's definitely not storming the base, right? This guy's not the frontline assault that we're sending at night to take out an outpost. So what's his idea he's thinking of here? Maybe he's in his house, right? And maybe he's in his house and he hears a bump in the night.

Speaker 2: 2:28

So he takes off his VR goggles.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Yeah. So he takes goggles his VR goggles off and dims the light in his room. After he finds his nods and throws them on, pulls him down. He's like, finally he goes and he gets his. Here's where I'm going to offend a lot of people because I'm going to say that I'm going to say the handgun he probably has as his bump in the night handgun. A lot of people are going to be super, super upset with me, but he's going to get. He's going to get his SIG P226 probably or M321 or the SIG P320, just because it's like the go to like current standard issue for the military. And it's like exactly that's what it is. It's the current standard issue and it was like it's the cutting edge If you're doing anything else, just not military standard. I'm just like little do they know? But he's going to have that 320 with like the cheapest suppressor he could get off on and he is going to throw those nods on and he's going to go and he's going to clap. He's going to clap the dude Like the dude coming into the house. Is he back? Shit, lights are off. Oh my God, I hear him. Hey man, I don't want to hurt you, I'm just here for you. Shit. He's going to mealtime. Six is going to be like he's going to like panic, get so excited to shoot him and then he's not going to be like I didn't give any warnings. And then he's going to like I don't know he's going to do something. Essentially, that gives away that he's wearing his nods when he shot this guy. He has this suppressed M3 20 and he's going to go to court and someone's going to be like seems to me like you wanted to murder this man Like and you didn't give him any like fair advantage. And here's the bottom line M6 has every damn right to defend himself with his gun that he owns legally and with the nods he owns legally Right? He has every right to do that. There should be nothing that is against like getting in his way of defending himself. Everyone has that right. But in the court of law, your jury of peers are going to view it as, like you have a military handgun with a military suppressor that makes it squeaky, assassin, quiet. If you fired a warning shot, he probably couldn't have even heard it and you had your nods that allowed you to see in the dark while this poor, this poor robber was bumbling, stumbling, trying to find the exit. Maybe he was trying to leave and you shot him and it's just like going to be, you know, open and shut case and that mealtime six is going to jail, right? Anyways, I hear this and I was just like this guy's an idiot. This guy's a this guy's an absolute idiot. Like if you number one whatever gun you're going to be using for self defense, be prepared to never see that gun ever again. That gun is going to go into an evidence locker and even after you're acquitted and the trial is over, the police are going to keep it, just in case whoever appeals against it for whatever cause. Right, so you'll never get that gun ever again. You don't be using high speed, low drag shit. You know your stuff for shit hit the fan scenarios. You know, keep that boxed up for when the shit hits the fan. But when someone's breaking into your house or if you got to, you know use something as self defense, whatever the situation is. Yes, in a free nation, a free person has every right to do whatever they need to defend themselves. Like as soon as someone decides your life is worth less than theirs, you have every right to. You know protect yourself by any means necessary. But that's just not how the court sees it. We don't live in a country that predominantly sees it that way, and so, unfortunately, you should be prepared to defend yourself with the most justifiable means at your expense.

Speaker 2: 6:31

So I use an Adel. Adel hangs up on my wall, geez bro, and just someone's going to say as cultural appropriation of that you're going like.

Speaker 1: 6:39

That's going to work against you in that case, and that's a bummer, bro, because there's nothing I would enjoy more. Wait, this is going out, this is going out live to all the people that will be used in court against me. There's nothing. I would enjoy more than being able to practice my first aid skills and knowing just how to save a life that has been injured by via gun wound right Like. To be able to practice that and know that you can use it in a time of need is a very important skill to have and I look forward to the training that we'll have coming up soon, right, the training that we'll have soon going over gunshot wound and stuff like that. Yeah. Honestly, though, you should learn how to do that because, also, if the police arrive and it doesn't look like you've done anything to tend to the injured individual, that's going into police reports.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Lay a napkin on them.

Speaker 1: 7:34

Yeah, and then you can come to something On that note. Tangently, Pat, I know you kind of wanted to mention something pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Yeah, we have had a chance to become an affiliate partner with a law firm that gives basically subscription. On a subscription basis you can have an attorney, an entertainer who will be there if you ever use your firearm and need them. Lots of different options out there, lots of different groups. Most of those subscription basis things you have for protection are more insurance companies than actual lawyers entertainer, and so there's lots of ways for them to kind of back out of helping you. And so, yeah, we've got a chance to partner up with attorneys for freedom law firm and their attorneys on retainer program and so they're going to be an affiliate for us. That if you sign up with them, it does help sponsor the show but also it actually is going to help you even more if and when you ever have to use your firearm. And that goes even outside of cases of using it in self-defense, as well as accidental discharges or even like brandishing and things like that.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Yeah, I mean, here's a very likely scenario that I could see many people who carry a gun or just travel with a firearm. A very common scenario I could see occurring, that I've heard about even recently in the media, is you're traveling out of one state to go hunt in another state, and whether you fly with the gun and it's a legal gun in the state you're flying to, or you're driving through a state and it's a legal gun there, and all that the truth is is just that you're going to encounter individuals with all different levels of firearm knowledge and competency and, like I have heard and I shouldn't say heard, because heard sounds like I heard it through the grapevine I've read the police reports and the documents and the court documents from people who essentially informed an officer when they got pulled over. For, you know, simple traffic stop or even if they weren't even doing anything wrong, you know they just reach a traffic stop and they get pulled over. They've informed the officer. Well, yeah, the only thing I got in here is my you know, my dear rifle and, oh my, my dad's pistol or my pistol or whatever Right, and officers say thank you, please step out of the car and they will arrest. You See, if you, you know, have a firearm that's not legal in that state, even if you claim you're just traveling through the state to get to the state where it's, you know, legally used for hunting or whatever, and that's sad. And then, like the truth is is, not only are you going to lose that gun that day, but you're probably going to get arrested. And not only are you going to get arrested, but, like everything's going into evidence lockup, your car is going to get impounded and it's going to be a pretty damn expensive situation. And they choose. This is like it's sad, but it happens to quite a few people. I don't know what the rate would be yearly, but I could see that being something that we need, you know, legal liability coverage for far quicker, you know, especially if, like the most recent one, I think, the charges got dropped but this woman was in New Jersey and she got pulled over and she had a firearm on her and it was illegal in New Jersey and rather than telling her to just turn around and go one hour back across the bridge and leave the gun at home. She went to jail for it, dude, and she told the officers like, officer, just so you know, I have a fire, my firearm is in the car with me and they literally like, thank you, step out of the car and ruined her life and didn't practice officer discretion and like, as someone who used to be in law enforcement, like that blows my mind, but you just got to understand that all cops are going to be practicing that discretion. A lot of them are going to be looking for a way to ruin your day and make their day better.

Speaker 2: 11:45

For sure. And so, yeah, from the little encounters up to really big encounters, it's good for really just a couple bucks a month to have the have these guys on retainer for you and to have the ability to call on them when needed. And so, yeah, we we've partnered up with them as an affiliate and if you're interested in checking them out, there's a link and our show notes down in the description where you can check them out and see, see if it's something that's a good fit for you.

Speaker 1: 12:18

Yeah, and even one last note on that too, you know, is that read through their stuff, because they have a list it out and they have videos, you know, describing what your pain. That is covered under the retainer. And one of the ones I thought was pretty valuable and made a lot of sense for being able to practice in all 50 states, is that it's not even coverage of just having a firearm. It's like, do you live somewhere where you practice the you know, ability to defend yourself, like whether you're practicing martial arts or something like that, because you feel like you might have to use it? Mm, hmm, like they cover anything, like you don't need to have a firearm, it's it's any use of a weapon in self defense or battery. You just have to be able to justify that. Like you know, you're not the predator, the criminal in this situation, the perpetrator, like you know, and it needs to be beyond reasonable doubt that you know you have you have a case of self defense, yeah, so, anyways, with that, we're really excited about them. I've spoken on the phone with them several times and I've enjoyed it and they've, you know, had great customer service. There's been times where Pat and I have sent them an email to get right wording on things, and they've responded out of hours, you know, late at night, and so I'm more than happy to be partnered with them. And oh yeah, by the way, like I have it, you know, coverage for my wife and I.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Right on, like they say about having a pistol, even better to have it and not need it than to need it and to not have it.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Yeah, Do you read the signs at museums and stuff? Are you a signed guy? Like you walk up to the plaque where they're at a museum or on a range trail and read it.

Speaker 2: 15:35

Oh, yeah, I will Like depends on the like. I'm not one of the people who like. Well, I can a museum do, like every single one right Like I'll read the ones that look interesting. Yeah, but like if it is like a, what about on the path? Like on a ranch, Like on a marker on the side of the road or something like yeah, we'll get out and read it.

Speaker 1: 15:56

I'm a I'm a signed guy. I read every sign now. I never read them as a kid and now I read them all the time, and my wife was teasing me. One thing that's cool.

Speaker 2: 16:03

While you're driving the places, they have historical markers. Now you can just look them up. It's like it is, does take away from a little bit of it. But like, if you're just like on a road trip, right, you don't want to stop at every single one, you can just pull up as you go and it's like you know, here Earl Jr, you know, killed his mule and like, okay, and you keep going and the next one's like some wild, crazy thing. You're like, oh, the president, like one of our presidents, was born right here, used to be a captain right here, like that sort of thing. It ranges quite a bit, but you're a sign guy, now You're reading all the signs.

Speaker 1: 16:43

I am dude and Billy Jean makes fun of me, but I don't know who's. Who's really winning here? Me yeah, she married me from, so it's like jokes on her. She can make fun of me as much as she want, but she's the one that married the sign guy.

Speaker 2: 17:04

And maybe jokes on you, because now you get to spend all the time getting all the knowledge and then occasionally which especially for some reason, once you have kids, this thing happens you get larger calves, a little bit, you get dad calves and then you also just know a bunch of random things that nobody else knows, you know, or that they didn't even know. That thing existed, bro dude it's fine. You, just now, you just you'll drop all these facts and these things and they'll be like. You'll be like that bridge was built in like 1905 by the Germans.

Speaker 1: 17:38

You know, think man people who already know me. I am that person, yeah. So I'm wondering how much worse it will be when I become a father. It's exponential. I can't wait. I can't wait to have all that meaningless information at the at my fingertips.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Oh yeah, I've all these things I'll like, say and just like with my wife and I'm like would be, would be pretty nice if I could, you know, use, use this superpower to. You know, like I don't know, monetize it, you know, get a job with it.

Speaker 1: 18:13

Pat. That's what we're doing right now. That's what we're doing right now. We're trying to monetize our dad facts. The whole reason we started this was because our wives told us we needed to. Hey, folks, want an awesome website for your podcast? Check out pod page. We use it for the mick and pat show and it's a game changer. Set it up in minutes, no coding needed. Support the show by using our link to get started. Your podcast deserves a home as great as ours. Pod page the one stop solution.

Speaker 2: 18:40

Hey, ken, pat here. We just launched our new website via pod page for the mick and pat show. Head on over and give it a gander. It allows us to connect and hear from you. The homepage will have our latest episodes as well as an email sign up on the sidebar. That way you'll never miss any new episodes or merge drops. In the bottom right you'll see a microphone icon. That's our voicemail widget. Ask questions, seek out life advice, provide feedback, leave a joke or even tell the rest of the can. Where you tune in from. Our sponsors page is where you go to find the latest deals we get to pass along to you even before an episode airs. Lastly, we connected our Patreon and coffee for those of our can who want to give back to the show.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Anyways, one of the things I really enjoy discussing, pat, I'll say one of the one of my favorite subjects to discuss is space. I'm a big space guy. I think I like it because it tickles that part of my brain where I read up on very narrow facets of certain theories. I feel very intelligent without knowing anything. All I've done is remember what I've just read and I feel very smart for it, even though I'm not the physician coming up with these equations sorry, not physician, that's just someone who looks like children. Bro, you're going to let me just roll that.

Speaker 2: 20:12

I was thinking about it.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Bro, that's so mean.

Speaker 2: 20:18

I thought you were going to. I thought you maybe. I was like oh, maybe he did mean physician. I was going to let you bring it all the way around and then it's like nope, nope, yeah. You read the articles and it's funny to me.

Speaker 1: 20:27

I don't understand how this works, but I just know that it is A great example of what this is a good thing, and it is more of a physics thing and less of a particularly space thing. But the only way to really study it is with objects in space. But a very interesting one is the three body problem. The three body problem pad is. You know. I won't go too deep into it because I don't want to bore anyone. But the three body problem is essentially an example of what's known as the nth body paradox, and n just stands for infinite right. The more celestial bodies you add to this, the more difficult it gets to determine it. But essentially, with the two bodies in space we can like we there is a mathematical formula that we can use essentially always calculate their trajectory and where they will orbit. And if it's just two bodies we can always predict where they'll go, because two bodies have a very predictable ellipsis. In relation to what I know, even if one's got a little bit of gravity and one's got a lot Excuse me the equations kind of can predict them pretty well.

Speaker 2: 21:43

So this would be like if you were looking at the Earth and the moon. Yep, okay.

Speaker 1: 21:47

Yep, but the three body problems, where it becomes absolutely unpredictable. And the three body problem essentially is that if we have three bodies of you know, sorry, we have three masses right and taking in their initial positions and velocities and trying to solve what their subsequent motion will be, we find that we can't really predict it accurately and essentially it's just kind of chaos. And it's essentially where a lot of people's theorems of chaos and like a chaotic universe originate. And all that said, one of the cool things about this and like in practice is that we have created the formulas and ran these. Gosh, I want to say millions of times now, but this, you know, this group did a I want to say group, maybe it was a couple, but the scientists essentially ran this formula of our solar system to predict where everything in our solar system will be in 100 million years. But then, after they ran that a couple thousand times, they changed a very small facet of the formula by one millimeter. Like they changed the orbit of Pluto by one millimeter or the orbit of Mercury or the orbit of the Earth right, and they changed it in some direction on a, you know, three dimensional axis. And just that one millimeter would give drastically different outcomes and would slingshot planets out of the solar system and slingshot other ones into the sun. And it was, it was catastrophic, and so like it's one of those things of like what are the odds that the orbits remain as they are and are unaltered by a millimeter? Yeah, and it's not that they wouldn't move a millimeter, like the Earth and the moon move away from each other about a centimeter a year. So it's not that like and things can't move, it's just that if they moved suddenly a little bit differently than all of our projections, you know, show them to be doing, then we're going to have a very different outcome in the solar system. For you know over the course of the next one million to 100 million years. And all that said, it's a very fascinating thing of like how little you can really know the effects of space and time and things like that. But I mentioned that just because my favorite of these theories, of these space theories to study, is the Fermi paradox. Furries, yeah, buries paradox, fermi's, like that. How could something so evil try to disguise itself as something so cute and innocent? The Fermi paradox, F-E-R-M-I Fermi paradox. And now it's a paradox that is coined by Enrico Fermi back in the 1950s and essentially the best way of summarizing the Fermi paradox is simply this pad when is everybody? Where are they? Where are we? Where is everybody? Space is offensively devoid of life. It is offensive in how all of our mathematical formulas and equations and what we can compute things to with variables, tells us there should be life, there should be not just intelligent life but life of all different kinds, and we just don't see it, no matter where we look. And essentially the Fermi paradox can be used as a as to terrestrial life right.

Speaker 2: 25:50

Yes, into the alien world, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:53

When we talk about life, when we're talking about life on other planets, planets that have life, that exists, you know, it doesn't matter. I mean, essentially, the Fermi paradox mostly was written to deal with intelligent life, other intelligent civilizations with the means of sending out radio signals, the means of sending things into space and receiving signals, right, and it's all based essentially on, I guess you could say, the equation is that there should be, if there's these trillions and trillions of planets in the galaxy, and even if the odds of life occurring are so small, that should still leave us with millions and millions and millions of planets of life, right? And so eventually this equation came out, called the Drake equation, and this is where things are going to get numerical. Okay, and I'll try to take it easy on you. But in 1961, physicist Frank Drake essentially came to this. Like you know, it was a bunch of scientists meeting up in an empty room in some kind of conference center. He says hey, guys, I have an equation that I think will help us put a number to how many planets should have life on them, and the equation is aimed to discover the number, which is big N, of intelligent civilizations within the boundaries of Held, by subsequent factors which, in our case, the boundaries are within the Milky Way galaxy. So what the equation is is that we have big N equals R, big R, which is the rate of formation of stars that could potentially allow for the development of intelligent life on planets nearby. So, yep N equals big R times. And then we have F of P this is the fraction of those said stars that actually have planetary systems. So, if you're already starting to see the picture here we have big N is the number that is produced from this equation, where we have the rate of which stars form, and those stars are the particular rate that we're measuring. Are stars that could be like our sun and our solar system, could have planets orbit it safely. Then you have the fraction of those stars that do have planets orbiting them. Then you have N of E, which is the number of planets in a solar system with an environment that could sustain life. Alright, so now we've moved down into another criteria. Then you have F of L, which is the fraction of those planets that do sustain life. Then you have F of I, which is the fraction of life sustaining planets on which there is intelligent life. Then you have the F of C, which is the fraction of intelligent civilizations that have survived long enough to develop communication technology to send signals to their existence I'm sorry of their existence into space. Then you have L, and big L is the length of time that these civilizations emit these signals before those civilizations don't exist anymore. So the common numbers that have been agreed upon for this equation is that N equals 10 times 0.5 times 2 times 1 times 0.1 times 0.1 times L. L is often denoted as being around 10. With all of this, the best guess is that there should be anywhere from 1,000 to 100 million planets that fit into this. I guess you could say a better way of phrasing it is not planets, but 1,000 to 100 million civilizations in our galaxy.

Speaker 2: 30:04

Nared it down there.

Speaker 1: 30:07

It depends on the weight that you give things right. It depends on the flexibility that you want to have in the equation. The issue is the paradox If there is 100 million, even if there's just 1,000 other civilizations like us, or the guys we all sprung up at the same time very slim, did they start before us? If there's 1,000 of them and we're early to the party with them, then they should be before us and they should be sending things out as well. But how long will it take before we know If we're on the late side of it? There's 100 million other civilizations that weren't the last people to the party. Why aren't we seeing these signs? on other planets With that, this paradox exists. I don't want to tell you an answer, right? I want to fish around and see what your thoughts are. Let's take our own lenses out, own beliefs out. Did that just break? No, it just fell out of there. But you and I, we're both Christians, we both believe in an intelligent design. I'm not saying that you can't be a Christian and not believe they're out there. I'm saying that I personally don't think there are 1,000 planets of intelligent life out there. But I can entertain the philosophy and I can entertain the idea of it and perhaps what it would look like, and then I can also try to deduce why we don't see it. It's kind of interesting, just in what your thoughts are.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Yeah, I think that it isn't interesting. The Fermi paradox, you know, would be if there's, why haven't we seen the evidence? Why hasn't there been a radio communication or a mothership that came and floated over or whatever else, and were evidence of that having happened at some point? Some people might argue that there is evidence of that based off of, like you know.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Where do they go Right?

Speaker 2: 32:32

That's only evidence that you cite on our own planet, right Of you know, a very common one would be like that pyramids popped up all around the world kind of around the same time with pretty much the same design. So lots of people think that that would be that there was outside influence. You know, telling people what to do, right, because that would be like, but then that's our planet. That's our planet, and there's also no continue evidence or hard evidence. That's the fact. And so there's these two things, kind of. If you're going off of just these two, the Fermi paradox and the Drake equation then basically the situation we're currently in is either one we are at the beginning of, we are the first kids on the block of the whole deal, or there isn't other intelligent life, you know, or there's others that are kind of the same stage we are, but we're starting with. I wonder how far, like how far have has Humans cast out radio signals out into the? It's a great question, you know, cuz I have no idea how far there's somebody out there, how much you look at, look out, look at.

Speaker 1: 33:53

How many light years has evidence of humanity traveled? You know cuz I mean it? And that's kind of a hard question to answer, because if we were dealing with an advanced civilization and the reflection of the Sun's light bouncing off of Earth to you know everyone who might be watching, technically they probably, you know, we could sit, we could argue, maybe 10,000 years ago, if they looked at Earth with a telescope, they'd see the Egyptians Building the pyramids or getting, I guess not specifically 10,000, but they'd see, they'd see signs of intelligent life on Earth, right, they'd see construction of Non-natural designs. If they looked at Earth and they were 10,000 light years away, and I guess right now they'd be seeing that right. But we have other solar systems that are far closer than 10,000 light years. We have some that I think are within a hundred light years if I remember correctly in drama is a hundred, maybe less than that, and so that means solar systems solar, yeah, yeah. And so the drama to solar system would be seeing us. You know they'd be seeing World War two, I mean World War one right now about to break out, right, you know, I mean and so like it should be in that, like same theorem. You know, if there's that intelligent life out there, they they've had. You know our radio signals have gone a lot further than I think many of us give credit to, and Let alone if they're looking at us with a telescope, with a lens or a means to look at us as closely as we can look at them. They should start seeing signs of us.

Speaker 2: 35:44

The I do a lot of scrolling on the Google ended up on reddit, so you know here's. But uh, there's a cool picture on here that says you know, basically it's showing that this one's saying that we've sent radio signals 200 light years in diameter around us, but then it shows that diameter on the galaxy, yeah, and it is a nothing. Oh, I spec, I hit, so like I'll show you. So it's like it's too much light years. So this is a galaxy and that blue dot, yeah, is a 200 light-year diameter, yeah. So I mean Also question how did we get this picture?

Speaker 1: 36:28

It's a render, it's a oh no, no dude, no, we just took that picture, bro, really yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:37

No, bro, you know, it's like it's it's our best guess. Yeah, you know, it's just our guess is what's going on out there. So Humankind gets out of their own depth very quickly, even with our top dogs on the on the case. But we're gonna crack it tonight, so I think that.

Speaker 1: 36:57

I'll say this so far. I'm gonna reiterate what you stated right so far. You've said perhaps, perhaps we are alone.

Speaker 2: 37:06

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Perhaps we're the newest kids on the block, or maybe not the newest, but perhaps we're the most successful to this point, mm-hmm and that no one else has made it as far as we have, and therefore we're the earliest ones to get to this level of technology that can send these signals out. Right, or they're? Or we're running in parallel or we're running in parallel with ones and we can't see them, but we can't get out far enough, or or mm-hmm. What's what would be the final one, the final step in that assumption you said we got either we're alone and there's nothing. Either were the first, either were in parallel and we haven't crossed. You know, we haven't been diagrammed yet, right? What's the next logical step?

Speaker 2: 37:51

simulation.

Speaker 1: 37:53

Kind of. I mean, I think the next logical step is that they are out there, mm-hmm, but they're beyond us, yeah, and that they're so beyond as they can hide from us and they can watch and this is probably one of my favorite have you ever seen the thing that trended on reddit or Twitter or whatever social media you like to use? But it was one sentence horror stories.

Speaker 2: 38:15

Hmm, have you ever seen those? I've seen stuff like it. Mostly I remember getting these texts pre smartphone that were like If you don't send this to 10 people, you'll die tonight. And then you had to keep sending it.

Speaker 1: 38:34

I'm not talking about that.

Speaker 2: 38:37

It's all center. Remembered those.

Speaker 1: 38:42

It's like one sense horror stories are like usually where people compete to try to come up with the creepiest. You know one sentence Mm-hmm, without like, without it being run on or anything like that and you know a very good, simple one is I just saw my reflection blink.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Mmm, just how could you ever? How could you see it if you were blinking?

Speaker 1: 39:08

I've been living with the love of my life for five years now, and I think it's more than time To finally introduce myself. The Existence of the uncally uncanny valley suggests that in our past, Our survival instincts had a reason to be afraid of something that looked human but wasn't. I'm watching my girlfriend through the window right now. I wonder how much longer I need to keep the oven on. Oh.

Speaker 2: 39:44

My god, yeah right, that's just, that's just dark in dark.

Speaker 1: 39:48

Yeah, scary, and it's all, it's all supposed to be kind of in that same vein.

Speaker 2: 39:53

Does that mean they were a tiny person? I?

Speaker 1: 39:56

Don't think so. I think that means they shoved their girlfriend in the oven. I.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Think you're that the person's killing themselves?

Speaker 1: 40:04

No, the person is. The person has put their. I'm watching my girlfriend through the window. I wonder how much longer I need to keep the oven on. Yeah it, you can't turn the oven off if you're in the oven, bro.

Speaker 2: 40:17

I thought it was suicidal, but it's it's homicidal. Yeah, um, that's whack I.

Speaker 1: 40:26

Woke up this morning to see a picture of myself sleeping as a screensaver. I live alone. You know stuff like that, right, but One of my favorite ones that I ever read was that. I'm trying to remember off the top of that because I don't have it here and I probably couldn't find it. I'd have to dig real deep in search of it. But essentially it was along the lines of Day after day, we kept on sending signals out, hoping that someone would respond and welcome us in. We never expected to get a signal back telling us that they weren't listening and to be quiet. I Need it again day after day, huh, huh, we send signals out mm-hmm. Excited with the prospect that someone might respond, but we never expected that response would be someone telling us they are listening, stay quiet, hmm. And the idea is that there is someone out there capable enough to hear humanity, mm-hmm and. And capable enough to respond quickly to our signals so faster than us, more advanced than us, and they warn us to shut up. Yeah, because there's someone bigger than them out there listening, hearing and right and like if they hear us, then it's bad. And this is where I think the Friday the paradox really shines is the premise that Perhaps Humanity is better off just trying to stay quiet and not find life, that perhaps humanity should just let things be and Enjoy our little bubble of the solar system, hoping that whatever the bigger fish is out there doesn't stumble along and find us. And this book I'm reading, which is called the three-body problem. It's written by Chinese author and I want to. I don't want to butcher his name. We look up the pronunciation just so I make sure I pronounce it Properly here. But it's a book that just got an audible yesterday and been listening through and I'm already Six hours into it. Shishin Lou.

Speaker 2: 42:51

That's what I'm going with.

Speaker 1: 42:52

I think, I think it's Lou shishin. Well, because Lou, I think it's pronounced like that in it Lou shishin first.

Speaker 2: 43:00

Well, their last name is said first oh is it. And then they're. In Chinese culture you say your last name first. So which is it, shishin?

Speaker 1: 43:09

Lou. I don't know how you think is the last name, shishin or Lou.

Speaker 2: 43:13

I don't know. I'm just reading this Wikipedia page I don't know.

Speaker 1: 43:18

Anyways, I think on the book, it's shishin first, which makes me think shishin is the last name, but anyways, it was translated and so far it's been a phenomenal book man. It's been just like gripping, immediately, grabbing my attention and just with the premise of a Larger-than-life kind of conspiracy Occurring and across the world's greatest minds, with perhaps one of the most horrifying discoveries, and in it, though, there is this premise of the Fermi paradox that is discussed, and I'm not far enough in to decide, to like, tell you like, if this is the predominant premise of the book or not, but I'm far enough in to tell you that I'm enjoying it and I'm scared. I'm scared, bro, like I'm scared. Some people have said this is the scariest book series They've ever read it. It's a three book series called Remembrance of the Earth's past, and so I'm looking forward to the other two. Everyone tells me the dark forest is when this book Explodes, and the dark forest is part of the third Fermi paradox. I know that to be one of the theorems, but essentially I'm gonna. I'm gonna share with you two analogies that are Somewhat about the Fermi paradox, but are more about how we observe the universe and perhaps why we should be cautious when we jump to conclusions and we should entertain the Fermi paradox on Whether it's true or not. And if you talk to a lot of scientists a lot of scientists I think maybe you're optimists I'll say I shouldn't say scientists. I'll say a lot of astronomers and Biologists are optimists that the Fermi paradox is not true. So they would say like they don't subscribe to it. Right, they think life exists out there. But either way, I think it's, it's valuable to entertain it because of these, these two premises and the premises are, I Think they originated in the book, hmm, and they probably existed on our different names, right, or Premises similar to them. But I've only ever seen it quoted from the book. I've never seen anyone quote these to anyone else. But essentially that it's called the shooter and the farmer, hmm, and Again, these are supposed to be Analogies of how the laws of the universe are. We might want to be careful saying this is a true fact, this is a true science, that whenever I drop a bottle it will go to the floor right. So In the shooter hypothesis there is a good marksman. This marksman is a three dimensional being and Exists outside of the two-dimensional target. It is aiming at mm-hmm. That two-dimensional target is Stapled onto the wood and they aim their rifle at it. And this, this marksman, this good marksman, pulls the trigger, bullet goes out and hits the paper dead center and the marksman then moves the reticle 10 centimeters to the right and pulls the trigger and over bullet of the equal size and diameter of the first one goes and puts a hole on paper 10 centimeters to the right, right, because this is Chinese. Yeah, and the marksman then aims up and Puts another bullet 10 centimeters above that one, until he's filled the whole sheet of paper With 10 centimeter holes I mean, sorry, with holes 10 centimeters apart, mm-hmm. Now, part of this hypothesis makes suggests that you need to be able to suppose that there is perhaps intelligent two-dimensional creatures that exist on the paper and that these two-dimensional creatures have their own scientists. And these two-dimensional creatures are not three-dimensional, so they have no means of being able to go through the holes and experience the three-dimensional world, mm-hmm. but they are able to observe the holes mm-hmm and as they look around, these two-dimensional scientists say it is a fact of our universe that there is a whole of 10 centimeters. I mean sorry, there's a whole spaced out every 10 centimeters in our universe. Mm-hmm, and that is. We can suppose and believe that this is a law of physics in our universe and that, no matter where we go, there will always be a whole every 10 centimeters, when really what they are Experiencing is simply just the whim of a higher dimensional being Deciding where to shoot, mm-hmm, and that there is no law that higher dimensional being could choose to put a hole Just adjacent to the other one, mm-hmm, and it simply break the laws of these physics that the two dimensional beings are observing. Hmm, and that is not necessarily supposed to be a malicious view Hypothesis, but it is a hypothesis that begs you to wonder if you think it's silly how two dimensional beings can make such a drastic summary of the world of physics around them and what their laws of the universe are. You have to be able to understand how much difference there is between a three dimensional being in a two dimensional being, and then you must try then To understand the difference between a four dimensional being in a three dimensional being, and how silly we may seem in assuming that gravity is a law of certainty. Mm-hmm the next hypothesis is the darker one, far darker the farmer. The farmer Propose that every morning on a turkey farm, mm-hmm, all the turkeys look around and they see amongst them, or all the turkeys they've ever known that these turkeys look around and they see their little turkey community, and One of them happens to be rather intelligent, and this turkey is a scientist. And this scientist turkey begins to observe the world around him and he sees that every morning at 9 am, food arrives Without fault, mechanically and Certainly. The farmer is using a mechanical process to make sure it is easier for him to feed all the turkeys at once and all of them Get an equal opportunity to the food. And this scientist turkey may not, may not even ever be able to observe the farmer. But simply, they know that there is a law of the universe that every morning at 9 am, him and his turkey pals Get some food, mm-hmm. This scientist turkey, having to observe this pattern for almost a year, tells himself I do believe this is a scientific law of our universe and therefore I'm going to announce the other turkeys. And so he gets up one morning and announces to the turkeys hawk, sorry, hark, this morning at 9 am we will receive food, just as we have Every other day this year and every day we have observed and it is a law of our universe that at 9 am we will receive food. However, the food does not come, but instead what happens is the farmer comes and it is Thanksgiving day and the farmer Must reap every turkey here For that. It was their purpose. That was the whole design of the turkeys and the whole design of the system. And every law and place in the system existed to essentially Harvest the turkeys when time came, mm-hmm. And what happens after Thanksgiving day? What happens the week after the farmer new universe brings out more turkeys, mm-hmm. And those turkeys will see that they have this whole turkey pen to themselves. And there are no turkeys who have been here before. There are no signs of turkeys that might come after. And as far as they look out into their days and their calendars, they can observe. Every morning at 9 am the food comes and the cycle repeats itself. And that, to me, is a far more terrifying premise of the Fermi paradox, because, by chance, we are observing everything and we say, gosh, there are no other turkeys on these planets. As far as I look at my own solar system, I don't see any other turkeys, and as far as I look into the galaxy, I don't see any other turkeys. And why aren't any other turkeys Gobbling out there trying to get signal out and tell us that they're there too? Perhaps really, we are the only turkeys and in fact, if we're the only turkeys, then we are the only turkeys able to make these observations. And as we make these observations, we are absolutely unaware that these observations are simply us picking up on the means for our own harvest and the reason we see no other civilizations is because they've all been harvested. Yeah, and you know, some people say, like you know, this theory like Falls apart the more we gain the ability to explore. But, like the, the likelihood, like some people say, like, perhaps the most terrifying thing is that, because we see mars and venus as such similar planets to earth, with, you know, similar potential of atmosphere or gravitational mass, venus is even called the sister planet of earth. Um, the most terrifying thing is that perhaps we get there when we find fossils and not just like, oh, there was the venus version of a cow, yeah, but we see the venus version of us and to realize, like, oh, my gosh, like we're just at least round three in this solar system, mm-hmm, uh, what, what could that mean? Um, and like, there's some people who are like, I hope to god I never find a human fossil on any other planet, you know, like, because that's not a good sign for us. But I don't. I'm curious what you think, because when I hear these things, my mind wanders so far and I get so imaginative. And it's, I think it's, it's. It can be scary and dreadful, but can also be very fun to ponder, you know what, what this all could really look like and, at the end of the day, being able to say, man, that's crazy Good thing. I don't believe in any of that, yeah man, that's crazy.

Speaker 2: 54:05

Gotta go to work in the morning. Yeah, exactly um, yeah, no, I think. Uh, one thing is funny, uh with I was thinking of the dust bowl era, how we learned that you can't just keep growing corn on the same soil you have to uh switch it up to different crop rotation in different fields and things. I was like, though you're explaining venus in his other places, it's like they're just rotating us. They're rotating us through Bro dude.

Speaker 1: 54:39

I mean, is there, like I know you, you were chocolate. A couple points, but did like it? Do you feel like a hit, a nerve of like, uh, fascination, almost like to enter to be able to entertain a philosophy like that, like could be neither there could be no shooter and there could be no farmer.

Speaker 2: 54:54

All right, right. I think that the yeah, the farmer analogy too, let's say it isn't even Taking out the fact of like. The easiest line to draw would be like we are being grown to be harvested and eaten at some point, like that's like what you? But it actually is opening up a much wider question, or a much wider example of. You know, in the first Example, with the shooter, you just have okay, we are the two-dimensional, the beings who are only understanding our world via the influence of, you know, outside Higher dimensional beings, but the. But they aren't. That being isn't purposefully that like that. That being doesn't have a plan or they're just doing it, that being just the shooter's doing his thing, just being being the shooter Not even probably aware of. On the paper, yeah, and then the other version has it is much uh more uh Diabolical in that there's in, there's a plan, there's intent, there is purpose behind these things and maybe like why I say those words too, it's like If you flipped that analogy Maybe, I think I do believe in the farmer. I just think he's a good farmer. Oh, like he's not gonna harvest us and eat us right, like, like that there are, um, there's our understanding of the world and then there, to the best of our abilities and all of our observations, we understand the world around us, but there's more to the story. There's more going on around us than we know. I just believe he's a good farmer, right, like if you were to like, take it to my like, christian, like beliefs, right in that sense. And so there is like.

Speaker 1: 57:10

I didn't even think about that, but I think you're 100% right. I think you and I both subscribe to the the good farmer analogy, you know.

Speaker 2: 57:16

However, I don't know of any farm where they just raised them, just just to pet them.

Speaker 1: 57:21

Yeah, uh-huh, we're. Uh, I guess we're. You know, we are God's a dairy farmer. The dairy farmer he's a dairy farmer and we're just gonna be raised to be happy cows to make cheese.

Speaker 2: 57:32

I mean, here's another part of the analogy that maybe we've not explored in our Sunday school mornings Um, what's the shepherd raising those sheep for?

Speaker 1: 57:42

That's true to what ends?

Speaker 2: 57:44

to what purpose is the good shepherd raising his sheep?

Speaker 1: 57:47

You don't eat your sheep because old sheep don't taste good, I just shear them for the wool.

Speaker 2: 57:56

What we're gonna tell ourselves that, yeah, I had a beddoin once. Try to offer us a uh, a sickly sheep baby. Where was this in? Uh, there's real the gev desert in palestine. Yeah, that the uh. There was the shepherd out there with his sheep, with his sheep, but the uh anyways. I think that, um, I think there is more going on than we can understand and observe, and part of that Strengthens my faith and my doubt sometimes to be like I am just a turkey. I can't know what all is going on around, and we can strive to understand it best the best we can. Um, but then also the there's just so much interesting stuff going on right now where I feel like when was when did the little green men phenomenon happen in america, like you know?

Speaker 1: 58:57

the.

Speaker 2: 58:59

I think roswell was the instance of where we like, we, we had a face to the alien and not location, but like time, like alien craze time, you know like.

Speaker 1: 59:08

I think the biggest thing is that you see a historical spike of UFOs, uh, with the rise of the means to fly and like, right, we get, we get the ability to fly, playing the right brothers. And then world war one. But we start like people like, jeez, what the hell is that? And then, on world war two, everyone, like, the amount of UFO settings are in world war two is Like there's never been another time even remotely close to it, right, and I think a lot of people at that point in time were like, hmm, matsies, hmm, experimental aircraft, right, but then it kept on going after the war was over.

Speaker 2: 59:48

And then you have roswell and, like you know, the Little green bodies being hauled away from the crash, right right and so I feel like that uh, it's funny like Lots of people's, like grandpa's, owned planes, like like super common, like one of the most common planes to still have is like A Cessna built in 1970. Yeah right like so. But and so uh point I'm getting to would be um, there was a rise and craze around extra terrestrial and alien life forms, kind of around post world war two, comic book era stuff. But and then I think we're seeing a research. We're I mean undoubtedly are seeing a resurgence in. UFO, alien craze, um, and which is there's enough people out there talking about it and not just like making a fun, like comic book story about it. That it's like Personally makes me want to look into it, where it's like what is what is going on? What is happening and if, if there's any validity to the things people are seeing or saying there are, how does that um Compare to not how, not actually not compared to my like beliefs about the world or my faith, but like how does that actually uh, um Align with, even in a way, you know, like the Uh, what is going on? And I feel like growing up I was, I was pretty like, pretty like hard set on, like there, like there's no such thing as aliens, like a hundred percent, like until like maybe like 2020, like now I'm like really like I have like a Like a little five percent in there that I'll give over to like I all right, what's going on here. It's happened enough. It's worth looking into. Granted, we also just came up with AI production that can make Like a kid sitting in his basement can make the most realistic looking Whatever he wants in 10 seconds. So, as far as hoaxes go, I mean that's just we're screwed on that, you know, like as far as the ability to Produce media content, information, stories, and so yeah, get a couple you know 12 year olds playing with Video editors, plus Russian bot farms, and you can have a misinformation, just nightmare on your hands.

Speaker 1: 1:02:37

Hey Ken, it's Mick and I've got something important to talk about. We all hope we never find ourselves in a self-defense situation, but life's unpredictable. Enter the national self-protection plan from attorneys on retainer, an actual, credible law firm you could put on retainer for your self-defense needs. For just $35 a month you get national coverage in all 50 states for criminal and civil legal representation in self-defense situations, complete with a 24 7365 toll-free emergency line. That's real legal support when you need it most. What's in the package? Bail bonds, seen cleanup, firearm replacement, even mental health counseling, plus zero fees for a laundry list of Defense-related costs like expert witnesses. So support the show and get yourself some peace of mind. Click the link in our show notes or visit our sponsors page to sign up for the national self-protection plan from attorneys on retainer. You know, I agree, I think, I Think it's definitely. I think a lot of people are rethinking about it. You know, I mean, I think it's being, I Think it's in the minds of a lot of people. I'll say I always have varied on if I believe they are, they aren't there, mm-hmm. I'll say this I'm a big subscriber to not only the here's, the here's, the here's. How drastic it is for me in my eyes. I can't really explain it, and I wish I could, other than more than like gut feeling, mm-hmm, and I speak, you know, before, like, from the idea of like. Before I was a believer, you know, and what I kind of believe then, mm-hmm, but I don't think that there is an old like, a really happy alternative of us and carrying some Coalition of other alien races that are like, welcome, we'll share a technology with you and you can join our society and you could be the fifth member to the society of aliens right.

Speaker 2: 1:04:34

We've been reviewing your world history and all of your major technological advances have seemed to be, you know, very peaceful, you know, and so we think you'd be good for the you know. I just for this, for this thing.

Speaker 1: 1:04:46

I just can't imagine there's other races of species out there that achieve space faring without being Remotely as violent as we have. Oh yeah, I just really do think violence is like. We see violence as a means to survival across every species. Oh yeah, like everything, life eats life. Mm-hmm you know what I mean. And so with that, like I can't imagine it be different elsewhere, the only way I can imagine a species not having internal violent conflict for resources at some point in its history, mm-hmm, as if it evolved out of a you know some kind of single-celled organism that essentially says, like you do not have to consume something to reproduce. Mm-hmm, and I have no idea what that it would even look like, because it would we even want to be associated with those things.

Speaker 2: 1:05:33

Because those things.

Speaker 1: 1:05:34

By those things, however, they reproduce. It's not by eating and using that energy, it's by some other means of acquiring energy, which is scary, mm-hmm and like if that thing ever existed, it got eaten by the other amoebas. Yeah, like it exists on our. Very briefly, I'm playing it. Eat that shit.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

Care bear, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

I've discovered a way of reproducing simply by using the energy in the air. Get over here. Tastes good. No, no, what? Here's the biggest. All right, here's my thing mm-hmm if I, if God is not real and I in the good farmers not real, mm-hmm, this being, that is fourth, fifth, sixth, whatever dimension you want to attribute mm-hmm. A god of the universe to, if that being is not real and Held accountable by its own character, its own laws of itself, I Do a hundred percent subscribe, then, to the alternative of the the farmer mm-hmm if there is not the good farmer, there is the bad farmer Right, and I don't think there's any other option. I can't imagine a universe where there are no signs of, no signs that we can perceive yet of perhaps the shooter or Nothing that is a higher dimensional being, but just other beings who have roughed it out, like us, and are like hey guys, you're kind of young, but Once you reach here, you can be a part of it. Mm-hmm, you know what I mean. I think the idea of spacefaring Species that can come and see us, mm-hmm, and we don't have the means to see them outside our own Little bubble, I find very difficult to believe. Yeah, like, where is the technology that mass produces these interstellar, faster than light machines that can enter our atmosphere, fear, without ripping it apart? Mm-hmm, and they can leave our atmosphere without ripping it apart? We should be able to observe those within, like our ability of a perceiving light, and we should at least be able to observe, when they started getting the technology to develop, that On other planets or solar systems, you know, I mean Mm-hmm, like, as light travels from their planets, ours, and it's just one of those things. Like, maybe we're looking at the wrong place. Space is really big, you're right, it is, but according to the Drake equation, it's big enough that there could be a hundred million of these things, right? Mm-hmm? And the other revisionist of those equations essentially lower the standard to being not intelligent life, but life that can alter an atmosphere. Mm-hmm, which is Flowers? Yeah, it's plant life, essentially, and we've yet to even find Any inkling of any planets that have an atmosphere alternated by any form of life which would be like way, it's like way more than a hundred million at that point, like we're talking like billions of planets that should be able to fit into that category. And all that said, I don't maybe I'm just cynical dude, I don't know, there's something to me just believes like the big fish. Mm-hmm you know sharks don't go around trying to eat plankton. Yeah but Become a big enough. Piece of plankton in the whale shark will go up. You know what I mean. Yeah and at that point, your hope. This is why this kind of goes back. Sorry to the whole circle and the One-cent stores. If you're, if you're evolving from plankton to you know, shrimp mm-hmm. Your best hope is not to swim around in the sea trying to find out their shrimp. Your best hope is to sink to the bottom, where it's really dark, and become a lobster. Yeah, it is hide down there with the other lobsters and grow old. You know I mean, and hope to God that whale shark never finds out that there's giant Shrimp called lobsters at the bottom. You know what I mean. Like that's, like, that's like the scary thing, right like that's a scary idea, is like it's safer to just stay in the dark.

Speaker 2: 1:09:58

Because in the also, if they are, if the beings are, you know, space faring. I mean, we've seen it in a thousand movies it's cuz they're coming to take our stuff or us because they, after they're playing it up, or cuz they need more stuff, like there's, like like the or might just be that, like life is good for them and they don't want us to ruin it right, right. There's a lot, of, a lot of theories around how our relationship with aliens Changed when we use nuclear bombs. Have you read up on anything I mean?

Speaker 1: 1:10:39

I mean but it's like I get like that there, so like I get the premise in theory of their like civilizations that never, across all the divergent paths, diverged into nuclear energy being a weapon. And then they're like, like, for lack of a better term, they're like Christ on a bike they made a bomb out of it. Yeah, good god, that's what we used to cook food, and like, I've always thought that was funny. But I cannot imagine that there is a race of beans, or several races of beans, that Avoided the giant nuclear bombs flitting around in space and haven't figured out how to harness that energy and weaponize it.

Speaker 2: 1:11:26

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure I do wonder, though I mean like I said. I didn't. I don't want to. Know what are some of those things that you've read that for you find entertaining. The only thing would being that, like we've proven ourselves to be, to have the capability not just the capability, but like the we will push the red button. Like, as a species, we have the capability and and the ability to push the button to wipe ourselves out. We have the ability to just to destroy ourselves and we will do it, basically, and the. It's just funny, like all. It's funny how much time other people spend, like true believers, spend on the, on the whole deal, which maybe you can say the same thing about Christians, but the. If I had to, if I just had to like, if someone said, all right, what do you think is going on? What is the deal? I'd have to say that there's, there's more to Just our three-dimensional understanding of life. There are beings that are outside of Our three-dimensional existence and at times they show themselves to people and Also I Don't know what that means, but I think that's true, like it, because, because it, what I think is really funny is you have two sides of these camps, so there'd be like a classic Like Person who believes in aliens and stuff also being like there's no God, there is no such thing as angels. There's no such thing as you know all these other things, and you're so stupid do believe in it. And then, on the flip side, you'd also have like Christians saying like there is no outside life. There's like and I've been told this by like pastor and things, yeah, yeah, there is no Esoteric your life, there's no life outside of planet Earth. And you just which? A very simple, immediate response to that would be like, well, what the hell is heaven Right? Or what the hell is hell on it? Yeah, yeah, it's not life Right.

Speaker 1: 1:14:11

And so I get what you're saying, but those things, if we believe in them, they can hurt us Right right and the like.

Speaker 2: 1:14:19

So it's like one side believes in aliens, the other side believes in angels and both sides think the other are idiots. I'm just like. Maybe we don't know, we don't understand because we are both in a. We are in the farmer scenario. If you had to pick one, that we're in.

Speaker 1: 1:14:42

And, by God, christians are saying Thanksgiving's coming and it's gonna be awesome. And everyone else is arguing whether or not Thanksgiving's real. Is it coming, is it not coming? And some people who are not Christians are like it's not gonna be awesome, it's gonna be very not awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:15:01

And so I just think it's if you believe in the supernatural, then you also believe in extraterrestrial life forms of some thing. However you quantify it, understand it. That's whole conversation. But and then also the same thing if you believe in extraterrestrial life forms, you essentially are believing in the supernatural, things that exist outside of our dimension.

Speaker 1: 1:15:31

Yeah, I mean you know, and I think to kind of add in, add on to that in order to argue for more of a reason that people should read this book again. Three body problem the whole introduction of the book, excuse me, the first few chapters essentially are observing what religious fervor and scientific reasoning can cause. And it takes place during the essentially like the Red Party Revolution in China, when people were murdered simply because they believed in Einstein's relativity and that was viewed as too reactionary with the unscientific beliefs of America in capitalism and that the Big Bang theory was also a punishable theory by death. Like to believe in the Big Bang because it left room for the existence of a God, of a being outside the universe, and was too reactionary. And one of the protagonists of the novel she watches her father get murdered simply because he says I don't know if God's real or not, even though it says internally in his mind at that moment he was starting to think that he was leaning towards God doesn't exist. Because of just how awful China was at the time A lot of Bolshevik youth stuff about them being rallied up and being militant atheist, murdering anyone who wasn't their version of atheism, and it really just went to show like this is religious fervor in what is believed to be science. And then later on in the beginning of the book I don't think this is why I think, cause I think you'll find it rather quickly but I mean it's actually like on the backside of the book about the premise it's proposed that physics doesn't exist, will never exist, and for physics to exist requires a feverish religious belief in physics and denialism. And to falter in that faith in physics will reveal that physics is broken and doesn't exist On a micro level. That will also further expand onto a macro level and it's kind of the first part of the mystery revealed and I don't think it will be where the book dwells a lot of time at. So if that sounds like so uninteresting or just interesting enough that you want to get past it to what's more interesting, I think that essentially, like the book is going to move past that and focus more on the farmer hypothesis, I think it's leaning hardcore into the farmer. It might be leaning to both. Perhaps there is a farmer and a shooter and that both of those are fourth dimensional beings and the shooter just doesn't care if the farmer eats us.

Speaker 2: 1:18:51

I don't know. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:18:53

Like. I think all of it could be, like all those theories might have a place in the novel. But that said, it's fascinating. It is dreadful. There are things that occur to protagonists as the book is progressing that you can only imagine would drive you insane. And at first you hear about people going insane and you know the premise is like all these great scientific minds across the world have started killing themselves in like under two months, leaving all these insane suicide notes of how physics doesn't exist. And if physics doesn't exist, then reality is broken and like their whole idea shattered. And it's essentially like the idea of like what, if? I mean, I'm not saying this is what the book's saying, but honestly I could see it like what if you had undeniable like evidence that God's not real, jesus isn't real, there is no good, but gosh, there's a lot of room for evil. And it's like one of those things of like holy smokes that wants to point. And that same argument is kind of made for like imagine your whole life's dedicated as a physicist or a theoretician and then you find that out of its real, it's all make believe. What's the point? You know what I mean, yeah, so anyways, really great book so far. I'm ecstatic to see how it progresses. I'm ecstatic for the aliens to arrive, cause that's one thing I know. Yeah, there's aliens in it. They're coming and they're not good aliens. I just don't know. That's all I know from like. Essentially, the premise right, is that there's someone out there listening, mm-hmm, anyways. So with that, I know that was a deeply scientific dive, but I really was just so excited when I read the hypotheses of the shooter and the farm rounds like dude. Pat will like this. Pat will find this intriguing Very interesting. I hope I didn't leave you dissatisfied.

Speaker 2: 1:20:46

No, not at all, Not at all. Yeah, the all I know is that the conclusion of like our last five episodes is that we've got to start doing full books on the show.

Speaker 1: 1:21:02

I'm getting ahead of you, doug. Yeah, you can't expect me to wait.

Speaker 2: 1:21:05

I will, I'm gonna catch up, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1: 1:21:09

Honestly, the best place is probably to just do. You think you could crank through this book. Is this book's only 16 hours? Blood Meridian and Loads of Death. Loads of Death are both like 30. Close, closer to 40 than 30. All right so.

Speaker 2: 1:21:29

I'll do it. Right now. I'm deep in the in the Jack Carr's world of James Reese. Are you listening to that? I've been reading them.

Speaker 1: 1:21:40

Oh nice. I'm in the third book right now have any of them been good enough that you think we should review them on the podcast? Have any of them been profound?

Speaker 2: 1:21:49

They're not. They're not on the level, they're thriller books, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:21:53

It's not the it's just there's a different Isn't that the critique of humanity, like these other books are?

Speaker 2: 1:22:00

Yeah, the different, different situation. They are just, they're eye candy, they're ear candy, like you know. They're just, it's great, you just I got those too, man.

Speaker 1: 1:22:10

Oh yeah, I do. I'm a big fan of Galaxy's Edge. Trying to think of a couple of oh dude, for all my D&D nerds out there the Dritz Du Erdin series, great books, great books. But anyways, ken, thanks for joining us. Sorry if this was a dry for you, it wasn't for me, man, it was fascinating. I love talking about this stuff. If you're like us and you enjoyed talking about this too, let us know. And if you found it enjoyable to take a ride with us to France while Pat recounted, appreciate you joining in. Let us know of any places you suggest we travel to, because, if you haven't count on, pat travels a lot. I travel moderately, but Pat travels out of country several times a year, so definitely give us those suggestions.

Speaker 2: 1:22:59

I make him sound like a James Bond. It's been like a unique year, for sure, but hey, I wouldn't mind keeping up the trend. I wouldn't mind keeping up the trend.

Speaker 1: 1:23:08

Alrighty, well, hey, pat, you got anything you wanna sign off with you.

Speaker 2: 1:23:11

Know it sounds like I gotta get to work to afford this life of international mystery I lead, but the I think what I'd leave off with is like the concepts and topics we were talking about on this podcast around. They can be things that drive curiosity or they can just be things that kind of they could derail you too, as well as like they can put you in like a rough spot.

Speaker 1: 1:23:46

I guess they could bump people out.

Speaker 2: 1:23:47

They can if you're in a struggling place, but the it's okay if it does, if it intrigues you or if it makes you question or wonder about what your existence is, but lean into it with some fervor if that's the case and I believe there's a good farmer and that I have a lot to learn about- it you know so.

Speaker 1: 1:24:14

Amen, yeah, he's a good, good farmer. That's who he is.

Speaker 2: 1:24:22

All right.

Speaker 1: 1:24:24

I'm trying to think about a bit turkey in that song. That's all I've been thinking about for five minutes. Anyways, hey, thanks for joining us, Ken. We love you, we appreciate you and look forward to talking to you next week.

Speaker 2: 1:24:37

Till next time. Thanks for tuning in. If you love this episode, drop us a review. If you have qualms or comments, leave us a voicemail on our website. While you're there, check out our latest news, merch and deals from our sponsors. Till next time, Ken.